Here we go again.....................

** UPDATE **

Ok, I had my dad run the car on the highway a little and do some in town driving today. From what he told me, it initially accelerated "ok" but it still has a stumble at idle along with the metal tapping sound. After he only put 12 to 15 miles on it he was coming home when the engine could barely make it home without stalling. This reminds me of the clogged fuel filter symptoms I had when I drove his original wagon home from NC years before. My guess is the more we drive it, the more crap from the tank is getting sucked into the fuel filter. I told him to buy a few more filters and replace the current one and then drive it some more.

My main concern now is the knocking on the passenger side that he says is not going away. If it is a bad valve or rod bearing that is not something I want to mes with and would rather swap out a different engine and while I'm at it, the matching transmission. I found another 307 with the trans from a 1986 Olds Cutlass that is currently in the car and running and driving. Under 100K miles and no engine noises or leaks. Guy wants only $500 for both and is willing to swap it into my dad's car for $500. He will sell me anything else I need cheap like exhaust pieces beyond the manifolds, wiring harnesses, etc.

My question is, will this engine plug right in and go or will I need to also make sure I get the engine harness and ECM from the 86 Olds? Since he has agreed to do the swap if we make a deal, the car has to run and drive before I am going to pay him for the swap. I just want to be prepared for this project since I will be coordinating everything on behalf of my dad. Does anyone on here know whether all the ECMs for the 307s in the full size Buicks and Olds built during the same year are compatible or if I need to also consider purchasing the ECM from the 86 Olds to keep the dash CEL from lighting up like a Xmas tree? I know for sure the engines are identical, just not 100% on the wiring.

I was really hoping a tune up would get him back on the road, but if I can pull off this deal it will be a cheap alternative to leaving it up to a shop to fix everything.

If anyone knows the answers to my questions above let me know asap since this deal is probably going to happen or bust in the next week or so.

Ted

 

The engine itself and the trans are separate from the intake, exhaust, carb, sensors, etc., so yeah, you may have to pay for a carb mounting gasket and exhaust manifold gaskets, etc, but you keep your carb, your wiring, your TAC and all its controls, and your computer. Just switch the longblock and trans, it might cost a few dollars more, but you will not end up with a non-running car you and the other guy sue each other over. I've done far more than enough used engine swaps to know, it's the best way to handle the situation. Otherwise, it could end up blowing up in your face.

 

Man I'm impressed you are up at 2:20 am!!!

I figured if the vehicles are the same year that everything for the most part is plug and play i was just uncertain about the computer.

Honestly I would prefer to keep the replacement engine as is because it is super clean, been in a vehicle that was garage kept and the carb on my engine probably needs a complete overhaul due to sitting for too many years.

I haven't decided whether I want to tackle the swap or pay him to do it with all the delicate wiring and vacuum lines. plus I want to just unhook my a.c. compressor and move it out of the way because my system still has r12 in it and it blows super cold. Almost impossible to find someone who services r12 and I don't want to switch it to r134.

I'll post my findings once I decide what to do.

In the meantime I told my dad to replace the fuel filter again and put some more miles on it. Maybe i have a stuck lifter that will get loose with the atf I have in there.

Well silvertwinkiehobo I'm going to have my first cup of coffee at 7:31 am!!

 

Dude, you're two hours ahead of me.

OK, I do see your point, but if you are wondering if the computer will work with the replacement engine, it's simple: GM handed out computers and the 'calibration' chips inside them based on the engine's VIN code (VIN position 8) rather than on model year or platform. If you can find someone at a shop that still has all the Snap-On books that came with the MT2500 scan tool, they should have a GM computer and chip part number cross-reference book, detailing which engines were computerized for a given model year starting in 1980, and which computer part number or numbers and all the chip part numbers with any notes on superceding P/Ns and the reason why they were superceded. By having the model year, engine VIN code, computer part number (if it's still visible) and the calibration chip part number for both vehicles, you can look them up in the cross-reference book, and it will tell you if anything's compatible or a direct cross-over. One problem GM made with their computers, they made the computer's connectors different between most VINs, unlike Ford's use of a standard 60-pin connector for EEC-IV, so if the computer part numbers don't match, the connectors likely are not the same.

 

Very nice

 

Ok, I am resurrecting this thread now that I purchased a replacement engine to go into my dad's wagon. A 307 Olds from a 1986 Cadlliac Fleetwood. I guess GM was putting this engine in just about every full size car they could back then. only 60K miles and arrived securely wrapped in a crate. Opened it up yesterday and the engine is super clean and provides me some reassurance it is a super low mileage vehicle that must have been garage kept.

Pulled out the bad engine alone with the transmission. Cleaned and tagged all the parts as I went so it took infinitely longer. I kept the AC compressor and power steering pump attached and just bungied them out of the way. Installed a replacement water pump and thermostat. Got the trans separated from the engine and install came to a screeching halt. Now that the trans is laying on the floor, my dad wants to have a local shop inspect it and assess whether it is good to go or needs a rebuild. For those of you who are thinking about pulling and engine in these wagons, please keep in mind there are all sorts of emissions tubes and hoses that need to be removed. On the passenger side in particular, there is a tube that is attached to the back (yes the back) of the head and runs all the way down to the catalytic convertor. And no, you cannot simply unbolt it from the cat since it appears to be welded on. My dad said he checked everything on that side before we tried pulling the engine. Got it off the motor mounts and gave it a tug. No movement. I'm like WTF. After two more pulls and no success, I looked at his side and saw he did not remove the bracket that holds that tube to the head. I ended up kinking the hose slightly , but was able to heat it up and open it enough for air to flow freely through it.

So, now I am waiting for the green light on the transmission so I can finish the swap. The only other parts that I think we will need to swap are the exhaust manifold, just to be sure. The appear to be the same angle, but I'm sure the Cadillac had dual exhaust with a cross over while the Buick has the crossover that connects to the single outlet on the passenger side. Not a big deal, but I don't want to get the engine all the way and then find out the exhaust doesn't match up.

I also noticed the replacement headliner material I installed is not sticking to the headliner panel. I can carefully smooth it out and it will stick for about 30 mins and then it starts to come back down. Does anyone know of a decent headliner glue that I can buy to fix this? I used 3M contact adhesive spray ( I forgot the number) and it is very tacky stuff, but apparently not enough. I may just have an apholsthry shop redo these since I don't know whether I can go through another round of broken headliner clips and related headaches. It's not hanging down really bad, but over time and with the windows down while driving, it is only going to get worse.

Ok all, I will update once the new engine and cleaned up trans are installed and running.

 

and don't forget the pictures please.

 

Ok all. Got the replacement engine and rebuilt trans installed yesterday after a tin of scraped fingers and even my nose. I didn't get to install the air pump a.c. compressor or radiator but I wanted to at least fire the engine to make sure it turns over smoothly.

Went to fire it up and the engine turns over smoothly but no spark. Checked all of the related wiring and grounds. Missed a large ground wire from the rear if the engine to the firewall but the one in my dad's other wagon wasn't even connected so I doubt that is the culprit .

It was getting dark and late so I called it a day before pulling the dist cap and checking the pick up and ignition module.

I am going to have my dad finish installing the rest of the engine components and as many of the vacuum lines as he can. I also have my portable ignition that plugs right into the HEI cap and bypasses everything.

If that doesn't get it to fire do y iu think he needs to swap in the ECU from that 86 Fleetwood? The company that sold me the engine said they still have it but did not quote me a price.

Anything else I should check first??

Thanks. It is getting closer to getting back on the road. I will say the engine has excellent compression which makes me happy I got a decent one.

Ted

 

Good to hear some progress Ted. I'm not up to date on this year of engines but I wouldn't think the engine cares what computer it has.

 

Then, check for broken wires on the pick-up coil inside; the wires get old and can break when the module gets changed out, and pull the coil, make sure there are no burn-throughs from the coil primary winding.

 

Gotcha. I am going thru my photos of the engine bay before I pulled the engine to make sure I have reconnected all the grounds that were in place when the old engine ran. honestly, I did not even touch the existing distributor, cap and wires that came on the replacement engine because I wanted to get it installed and try to run it before the warranty period expires.

I did save the old engine with the brand new plugs, wires, cap and coil in case I need to swap out the distributor or steal some parts from the old ignition system.

the biggest thing that concerns me is I checked all four wires that plug into the distributor harness, but did not get any power on my test light. Maybe those are simply connections for the ECU so wasn't too worried. However, when I checked the pink connection to the BAT on the distributor cap, I am not getting any power to that wire as well. I assume that is the main power from the battery to the coil.

I asked my dad to finish installing the air pump, AC compressor and the missing EVAP hoses to the manifold valves before trying it again. I also have a portable ignition that he can use to test power getting to the spark plugs. If it fires using the portable ignition, then he can work backwards to figure out where the short is or at lease drive the car to the shop and let them trouble shoot the issue.

Will post my results when I get a minute.

 

The pink is power from the IGN to the coil. And yes, the four-wire connector is for computer use only.

 

Thank you for the info. I thought that was the case. I checked that connection unplugged from the cap with and without the ignition turned on and did not get any evidence of power from my test light. That confirms why I'm not getting any spark.

Any ideas on what to test for that? Fuse? I'll confirm the remaining grounds are attached, but not sure why I would have a fuse issue. The battery and ground connections were unplugged before I removed the old engine and the last thing I hooked after installing the replacement engine.

Going to test the ignition system using my portable ignition to rule out the ignition switch as the culprit. If the engine fires, then I am going to have to troubleshoot backwards from there.

Thanks!

Ted

 

If you don't have power at the pink, the ignition electrical switch is the next step. Especially if the switch is wearing out. If the external ignition uses the pink wire for power, it still won't work, of course.