Great replacement di-noc comparison

Discussion in 'Woodgrain' started by 90merc, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. Fat Tedy

    Fat Tedy Island Red Neck

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    Ian, 90 is correct:2_thumbs_up_-_anima!!! A good quality leather conditioner is the way to go (no Armoural crap). The conditioners I use are for leather furnature and horse sadles. I prefer the stuff for horse gear as it's suited for....being out side, being wet. I still use Pledge though, but thats on the in between of the leather conditioner. Pledge is a great in a pinch fast alternative after a fast summer car wash when time is a factor
     
  2. Mark Ervin

    Mark Ervin New Member

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  3. Mark Ervin

    Mark Ervin New Member

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    ...oh, and that '68 Chevy on eBay has really got me going. I'd almost offer to trade the guy my '69 Pontiac if he could confirm the 'actual' milage on that 327. What a beaut,eh?!
     
  4. 90merc

    90merc Well-Known Member

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    I like everything but the di-noc.
     
  5. Mark Ervin

    Mark Ervin New Member

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    Agreed. It has that repeated pattern discussed above. Under the hood shots could have been taken of my
    '66 Impala, rest it's. or rather, rust it's soul.
    I'm betting that car has turned over but just barely. Mine had 126K on the 'O'
    and, based solely on likes, had the exact same appearance. The replacement wood makes me think that's
    a repaint but it appears to be a nice one. and the interior looks amazing. I'd want very detailed shots of
    the frame given it's current residence in the rust belt. I'd hate to get the same surprise I got when my own
    car' s gave way to undetected rot; a big problem for those big Chevys. I could live with the Di-noc for a while
    but would definitely resolve that issue at some point.
     
  6. 90merc

    90merc Well-Known Member

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    I agree, if that odom hadn't turned over, the car would still be wearing its original paint and woodgrain. But it does look to be an excellent driver. The good thing about the light colored paint is that the thick trim around the di-noc goes much better than on the darker colors.
     
  7. ctrysquire

    ctrysquire Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree with Silverfox, when he asserts that it is not possible to accurately replicate the woodgrain on a wagon. The woodgrain on my '70 Country Squire was replaced a few years ago using repro vinyl transfer from Stripeman. It was offered as reproduction woodgrain for all '69-'78 Country Squires, but a little research in the Master Parts Catalogs indicates (unsurprisingly) that '69-'72s used the same woodgrain transfer (at least the factory service part is the same for these 4 years), while '73-'78s used a different transfer.

    If you have a '68 Country Squire, Woodgrain4wagons has a transfer that is spot on. This is no surprise as the owner has a '68.

    Of course, the Country Squire was the woodgrained wagon that was produced in the greatest numbers and is a popular collector wagon, so it makes sense that it would be the first to have it's woodgrain reproduced.

    Another alternative would be to use the same woodgraining process used on metal dash boards of cars of the '30s and '40s on the side of the wagon. I actually had this done for the surround rails of my CS, and the results were fantastic. Ford did not offer a replacement transfer for the rails; you had to buy the whole rail. Some of the people offering repro woodgrain transfer do have one for the rails, but the curves and corners never seem to come out very well -- there are always noticeable seams or folds.

    I do agree with Silverfox's comment that making accurate woodgrain transfer ought to be relatively easy with today's technology. It seems that it should be just a matter of scanning the original and having a special printer to print the woodgrain and the base color on the vinyl stock. Perhaps it's a matter of economics. It may not be possible to produce the transfers in low quantities at a price that enough wagon owners are willing or able to pay. If this is true, then it's just a matter of time for the special scanners and printers to come down in cost to the point that custom-made transfers can be produced at a feasible cost.
     
  8. silverfox

    silverfox New Member

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  9. silverfox

    silverfox New Member

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    The more I think about this the more I'm thinking that those old rotogravure plates just may still exist. I have seen many other old plates stored at the printing house warehouses. Sure would be fun to find out where the woodgrain was produced and go there. I'll bet there are still guys around that worked there and remember printing them!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  10. 90merc

    90merc Well-Known Member

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    Fox, I think 3M made most of the di-noc for the car companies. A while back on e-bay someone in CA was selling beautiful '67 Chevelle Concours Estate wagon. In the description he mentioned that he had paid to have the original di-noc pattern reproduced by 3M, but they required him to buy a lot of product, because they wouldn't do the set up for a short run. From the pictures it looked pretty good, but I'm thinking it was probably done on the thicker vinyl they now use for their architectural line, and if you don't want the stuff to delaminate, you have to put 3M primer wherever there are bends and curves. (Still, it was amazing that they could dig out what they needed to recreate the original pattern). Someone on the forum had this problem with a nicely restored '80's Buick Estate Wagon. The severe creases at the wheel arches caused the vinyl to separate from the paint and bubble. I agree about getting a hold of the rotogravure equipment, but with all the chemicals involved, you'd never be able to do this kind of thing anywhere but in a factory.
     
  11. silverfox

    silverfox New Member

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    But...3M didn't PRINT them, I'll bet. They had a vinyl process maybe but I bet they were sent out to a specialty printer. They had to have the engravings made and the presses & press men. That's why I think the plates still exist. I would bet on that too. What chemicals? If the plates exist you would need no chemicals. And, now days the plates are engraved with lasers.
     
  12. 90merc

    90merc Well-Known Member

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    I think 3M did do the printing (they had bought out the original Di-Noc Company years before - they kept the name and di-noc became the name of the 3M product). The new di-noc has air-release channels and is applied dry. The original product was put on wet so the panels could be re-positioned if needed while they were being installed. The rotogravure process uses a lot of different colored inks and there is waste involved: that's why I don't think it's a home-friendly process. The pattern is etched onto the cylinder, but that's just part of the process. Maybe swf.com needs to have a field trip to a printing shop.
     
  13. silverfox

    silverfox New Member

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    Oh...no, it's NOT a home style business. I didn't mean to indicate that it was. I'm surprised that 3M would get into the printing of the product, frankly. I'm still doubtful about that. The process requires a lot of skill in making the plates and running the presses. The expense for what little they would use it for would not be even close to cost efficient. They may have bought the name and vinyl process but, my bet is that they farmed the plate making & printing out. I could be wrong, of course.
    It's a great process that has its place. I was in NY one time at a printer that did huge volumes of roto work. I was lucky to have been there when they were running a 12 color fine art book! The results were astonishing. You could hardly see a dot pattern even with a loop! Anyway...it is the only curved plate printing that goes direct from plate to paper. That I know of, anyway. But it was mostly for long runs and the presses were large ETC so...no....you won't be doing roto in your garage.
     
  14. spencer

    spencer New Member

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    Hi Guys, i am currently going through replacing the wood-grain on my 70 Buick Estate Wagon. Its quite the headache trying to get something even remotely close, I like a few of the stripeman colors but I don't think the gloss is going to look good once the car is done. I notice a few of you guys don't like the new D-noc? does it actually repeat to much? some of the samples I have have the closest matching colors and that nice satin finish. between the woodgrain, vinyl roof and other bits I would hate to try do a proper restoration of a 60/70's wagon!!
     
  15. 90merc

    90merc Well-Known Member

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    Hi Spencer. For color and grain match for your '70 EW, the 3M Di-Noc architectural series comes close with style FW-1020 (the FW is for fine wood.) http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=SSSSSu7zK1fslxtUoxtSM8_xevVSeChshvTSevTSeSSSSSS-- I have a sample and it is definitely not too glossy and it would look dark brown on the wagon, with some reddish tones throughout. My BIG concern is that it is really intended for wall finishing systems and is very thick, so cars with pronounced wheel arches and other complex/compound curves are a challenge and would require a 3M primer in those spots for proper adhering to the paint. I really don't think it's flexible enough for the job.
    You could check out Phoenix Graphix http://www.phoenixgraphix.com/custom/wood.htm and Auto Trim Design http://www.autotrimdesign.net (put in a search for woodgrain).
    I just got a sample of ATD's cherry oak and even though the sharpness is right and it has a decent grain pattern, overall it's way too bright red-orange. However, they do a Marine Teak that looks good (from the website) which might work, depending on your wagon's paint color. http://www.autotrimdesign.net/detail.jsp?item=ATD-591GWMT&category=75145 I have a sample of ATD's cherry oak for Wagoneers and it's different from the generic cherry oak I just mentioned, and even though the grain is crisp, the background is too yellow, so I don't recommend.
    Always get a decent sized sample before ordering for the whole car.
    I am waiting for a Cherry Oak sample from Phoenix Graphics and will update when it arrives.
     

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