1978 Oldsmobile Toronado XS

Got the hood ornament on today. Used parts from three different ornaments. Two died so that one may live. Ignore the spots on the hood. The moment I backed the car into the driveway to get better light for the photos, it started to rain lightly.

 

The cars looks great after the repaint! I for one think that thin white walls would look great on this particular car. They are a sort of stylish, almost luxury option that separates the "standard" cars of the day from the "classy" cars. I think they would look good with the full wheel covers.
Cocker tire should have the proper size.

 

Your 1978 is looking great! Congrats on saving it!

 

Been about three months since I've posted. In that time, the car has had its transmission rebuilt, a new lower right side ball joint installed, four new whitewall tires installed, new rear shocks in stalled, and a front-end alignment. The transmission worked ok, but it had numerous leaks, and getting at them all meant taking it apart to the point that you might as well rebuild it, so that's what I had done. No more drips on the garage floor now!

Here's a couple of photos taken today with the new tires and the full wheelcovers, which I've been wanting to install for a long time as I like the look better.

The newest issue is the starter. It has started hanging up once in a while and not releasing when the engine starts. I think the only solution is to replace it.

 

Beautiful!!!!

That's a great example of American motor history that you have revived - museum worthy.

Cars like this will never again be built and deserve to be preserved and enjoyed.

 

Amen to that. The new rear shocks really bring that home. Before the rear would bounce and rattle over any small bump, but now it's tight and quiet, and the ride really is like going down the road in your living room. Very enjoyable.

 

Have you considered a PMGR starter? Late-model GM engines with that design have both the in-line and staggered mounting holes, so whichever setup your current starter has, you can get a PMGR that will definitely fit.

 

I've never heard of PMGR starters, but then I've never needed to change a starter on a car before. I've been doing considerable google searching, and, while I can find lots of info on PMGR starters, I can't find anything about putting one on a '78 Toro. Anything Olds-related with PMGR goes back only to the late 1990s (I can find one for my Bravada, no problem). All of the usual suspect websites (Autozone, NAPA, Rockauto, O'Reilly, Amazon, Partsgeek) show pretty much the same thing, ACDelco, Remy, and something called "Pure Energy." In all cases, they're remanufactured. Can you provide a link to something for PMGR that shows which one to buy to put on a 403 Olds engine?

 

I'll see what I can find, but no promises. I'm not good at picking what to type in a search parameter.

 

No worries. I did some extensive searching as well and turned up nothing. I couldn't even find a manufacturer's website for these starters. I assumed they might have application info even if they didn't directly sell them. The places I found that sold them and that had "specify your vehicle" search capability did not go back to 1978.

 

Yeah, for this, you have to look at the engines that could be close to the same as the 403 in certain ways; I want to say it had the staggered bolt hole mountings, but I cannot remember, and looking at the website pages can end up getting you a 'file photo.' How ever, if you have enough contacts to ask, in addition to belonging to other forum websites other than here, you might be able to find someone who can steer you in the right direction. I had to change the starter in my '70 Delta 88, and if I had known that there was a possibility of popping in a lighter weight starter that I didn't need to use a freaking trolley jack to get the replacement into position, I would've pursued it then. That's why I pulled the trigger on Babe's starter replacement, and now I have a newer P/N I can install without the darned thing getting stuck on the drag link and tie rod during the changeout. On a Ford intermediate car, you have to turn the steering to the left lock to change out the standard Ford starter, and it's still not easy after that.

 

I went ahead and ordered a "remanufactured" (does that mean something different from "rebuilt"?) ACDelco starter from Amazon because I was able to get it, after rebates and everything else, for a whopping $12.00. Amazon was selling it for $47 with a $15 rebate from ACDelco, bringing the price down to $32 (once the rebate check arrives sometime in 2019, but details, details). Then, I had $20 in rewards points on my credit card (which, yes, could have been used anywhere I can use the credit card) which brought the net price down to $12.00. On top of that, because I'm an Amazon Prime member and this starter was an Amazon Prime product, I get free, two-day shipping. So I'll have it Monday.

I took the old one out today just to see what's what with it. It came out very easily, and it turns out that it's not the original starter, anyway, so any concern about maintaining originality is gone.

Also, there has been some monkeying with the wiring as both of the wires have a connector in them as though new wires were spliced in. I wonder if this was done just to make removing and installing the starter easier. The CSM says to loosen the starter bolts and move it out a little bit to make it easier to remove the wires. Well, after I removed the wire from the battery, which was easy to do, the remaining wires had enough slack in them for me to pull the starter all the way out and set it on the floor under the car. That made getting the wires off very easy.

There's a sticker on the starter, too, and it shows a date of 4/27/95, which I presume is the date the starter was rebuilt, so it was probably installed some time after that if it didn't sit on shelf too long. So that means it has been in use only 22 years and not almost 40. But even that's not quite true as this car sat unstarted and undriven from 2003 to this past spring, so 14 years of not being started. So the starter was used only for about 8 years.

Yes, it is darn heavy. Must be made out of osmium or something! I figure I can try using the floor jack to support it up close to where it goes and then maneuver it by hand the last inch or so to get it in. We'll find out next week!

 

So when it wouldn't start what was it doing? no solenoid click?
Could be if you open it up and the brushes aren't worn down, the actuator may be stuck or the solenoid went out... but what do I know? I've never opened up a starter before, but I've worked on enough small motor driven stuff with brushes and actuators I've gotten down to rebuilding them as an art.

 

I've never opened up a starter, either, but it's not that the engine wouldn't start. The starter actually turns just fine. Rather, the starter gear (not sure of the exact term for it) that contacts the flywheel would hang-up and not release right away when the engine did start. The problem started about a week ago. The shop that did the transmission rebuild told me that the starter was acting up this way the last few times they started the engine when they were moving the car around. It was intermittent, and I was able to start the car and drive it home. But it was worse yesterday. The gear wouldn't release at all for a while, and I couldn't get the car started. Isn't there a spring in there that kicks the starter gear back away from the flywheel once the engine starts and/or you release the key? Then it did suddenly release, and all was good. But I don't want to keep using this starter since rebuilts are so cheap, replacing it is relatively easy, and I don't want to end up stranded somewhere.

 

Hey there's always a first time to learn for the curious, usually it has a spring loaded plate to engage when the solenoid kicks over, and is supposed to release after the car starts... maybe the spring is dirty, or worn, after all it hasn't been regularly started in awhile, could just need to be taken apart, cleaned, put back together, but I agree with Hobo and I'd replace it.
That doesn't mean I wouldn't take that one apart though, but I'm curious that way...