Improving a 460 (power and mileage)

Discussion in 'General Automotive Tech' started by Thirsty islander, Apr 8, 2014.

  1. Thirsty islander

    Thirsty islander Well-Known Member

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    Well my buddy did the chain today. Still not fully complete but the engine is sealed back up. He was quite surprised as how clean the front of the engine was, he said he has done a few 460's and they all had gunk down where the timing chain is and this one was spotless. It was the original plastic toothed sprocket and although he said it was looser than the new one it didn't look to bad. It was the 8 degree retarded gear so I'm happy two ways one getting rid of that plastic gear, as I had a chev one let go on a long trip before, and two we now have a 0 degrees gear in there. Next its plugs and the gauges.

    Any thoughts on the timing and how it will be affected by the change in gears? What would the suggested timing be set at?
    Thanks again gentlemen.
     
  2. MikeT1961

    MikeT1961 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if this helps, but when Ford redid the cam for the mid-80s Windsor, they did not change the basic timing, keeping the same 12 degrees before top dead centre. You may have to do it by ear, so I would start with the factory spec and adjust from there until you have as much as it will take without knock or ping.
     
  3. awesomee

    awesomee New Member

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    Weelll here's a few things I've learned about making mileage etc. It's too bad I'm late getting to this but here it is: The cool way to do the timing chain thing is with a compression tester. When you have the have the timing cover off take a test of the compression and record it. Then install the new chain 'straight up' and test, repeat for 4 degrees advanced. If compression is still going up, you could even try more but the trade off will start. This is very effective way to test that you're actually making progress. Keep the battery on the charger to make sure you're testing at full cranking speed.
    On the exhaust side, power and mileage are both improved with a single exhaust. True story! The choice of muffler is the important part....either a Magnaflow or a DynoMax with the largest can you can get under there. i"ve done a lot of systems with a 2 1/2 'Y' into a 3" single and that will totally blow away a 2 1/2 dual.
    To remove rusty nuts on old exhaust studs: Use a torch on 'cut' (lever depressed) to blow/burn off the rust on the studs, then 'heat' the nut cherry red and shoot it off with an impact (not by ratchet...too slow and no impact). try not to heat the stud much. Use brass nuts or stainless and nothing is perfect or lasts forever. Push the exhaust close so the nuts are clamping not pulling everything together. GM makes exhaust lube that helps.
     
  4. Thirsty islander

    Thirsty islander Well-Known Member

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    Well I now have the engine buttoned back up and new plugs installed and a new set of oil and temp gauges. (oil has copper line as suggested) My buddy also got the exhaust manifold stud nuts loosened off and ready to go for a new dual system.

    I have one open hole in the gauge cluster for a very important fuel and power improving gauge that no one here has yet suggested. I've kinda been waiting for someone to suggest it but no one has. Lets see who guesses what it is first.

    As for the timing chain and gear change all I can say is "wow" what a difference 8 degrees of cam timing can make. The wife and I went for a test drive and even she said it felt more powerful off the line and when kicking down into passing gear. Very pleased with the results:dance:

    I'm going to recurve the distributer and reset the timing my self and with the new gauge I'm installing I will be able to set the rest up no problems.

    I will post some pic's of the gauges and renewed rims as I have time.
     
  5. awesomee

    awesomee New Member

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    well that gauge should be a vacuum gauge. This is the one that will not only help make mileage it will also show up a broken valve spring, bad gas, and all sorts of other things. Think big single on the exhaust, you won't regret it . The physics is there to prove what I'm saying.
     
  6. MikeT1961

    MikeT1961 Well-Known Member

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    The advantage to that big single is how the gases scavenge, and a dual with an X cross over will do the same thing, but with smaller pipes that are less likely to hit ground. Dual 2 1/4 inch pipes work really well, and that 3/4 of an inch can make the difference between hitting ground and pinching the pipes and no hitting ground. There is plenty of room to tuck two good mufflers up under the floor, too. DynaFlow are really good as are the FlowMaster DeltaFlow mufflers.
     
  7. Thirsty islander

    Thirsty islander Well-Known Member

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    I think the arguments could go on all day about dual or single exhaust system advantages/disadvantages and y pipes/h pipes/x pipes and scavenging. I don't think the actual factory single is all that bad and as I've read on other forums the catalictic converters were top notch at the time and some say still are. That being said there is that cool factor with a nice mellow sounding good flowing dual exhaust.

    By the way it is not a vacumm gauge that's old technology (yes I know works) the gauge I'm talking about is more for tuning the engine, than driving habits, and then monitors how well it stays tuned.
     
  8. hullinger

    hullinger Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking that the new gauge should be an air/fuel ratio meter. It's one of the great ways of making sure you're using the precious petroleum efficiently.

    I've contemplated getting one but they are just too costly for a good one and they aren't easily transferred from one car to another.

    Chris
     
  9. Thirsty islander

    Thirsty islander Well-Known Member

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    Right on Chris an a/f gauge it is
     
  10. Thirsty islander

    Thirsty islander Well-Known Member

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    I don't think my engine is too far off as tuning the carb goes as the old plugs were in pretty good shape (although one was wet?). I've been wanting one and I have a reason now to get one. I will be trying to run on the lean side although not to lean as to hurt anything. I think that's what killed or shortened the life of most of these old engines was them running to rich or to lean. Still have a small antifreeze lwak at the engine neck that's peeing me off but I will address that soon. Unfortunately I have to go out of town to manistee michigan for work next week.
     
  11. MikeT1961

    MikeT1961 Well-Known Member

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    The cats flow very well on these cars, no mistake there. The factory single exhaust, however, is not so good. On my Thunderbirds, I gained roughly 5 mpg by going to a dual 2 1/4 inch system with a good pair of mufflers. On the first 3 I had an H, and on the 4th an X. I didn't see much difference between the two crossovers. Hot Rod Magazine did exhaustive (pardon the pun) instrumented testing on the various options, and the X proved to be better for horsepower than either the single or dual with H. No cross over was no better than open pipes. There really is a difference to be felt.
     
  12. Thirsty islander

    Thirsty islander Well-Known Member

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    I'm back!!! Well I never really left. I've been sidetracked by another addition to my family. A 1964 Cadillac sedan deville. So as a result my wagon has bee in storage since the winter of 2014/15. It hasn't been on the road for the past two summers but I'm about to break it out of hibernation. I want to get the old gas out and change antifreeze and oil on it.
    I will report that in the summer of 2014 I took the wagon on a two week vacation and it ran flawlessly. The a/c pooped out but I've purchased all the equipment to do a complete overhaul of it myself. I just got done doing the Cadillac including the climate control.
    I never did get the dual exhaust as the guy I brought it to said he didn't really want to do it as my system was about as good as it gets for torque and it's like new. My fuel mileage was excellent as far as can be expected and was as good as my 05 Dodge Ram or better.
    I've had it up on stands the whole time so my tires are all right. I'm getting jacked to get it out of storage and play with it for a while.
     
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  13. martyk98

    martyk98 Well-Known Member

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    Your 1977 retarded timing brings to mind a friend of mine that complained about his suburban being a "dog". He bought it used. Apparently is was purchased new as a fleet vehicle for a company that ordered the engines retarded from the factory. He fixed the timing and drove happily for years.
     
  14. Poison_Ivy

    Poison_Ivy Dogzilla Fan

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    Unlike having steel studs in aluminum casings, using brass nuts has the advantage of not corroding onto the steel studs, given that little to no chemical reaction is taking place between the two differing metals. If you've ever tried cutting threads into brass, you'd have noticed that it's relatively more difficult to do so than to cut threads into steel. Which only goes to show that brass is an indeed hard metal which won't fail. One reason why it's easy to loose brass nuts on steel threads is because both are dissimilar metals. Which is basically the science of using dissimilar metals for Main- and rod bearings.
    If you wish to get maximum performance from a 460, you'd either must get your hands on a pre-'68 cam or have a fresh camshaft ground to your requirements.
    Absolutely, true. The better an engine breathes, the better and more efficient the output.
     
  15. Thirsty islander

    Thirsty islander Well-Known Member

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    The guy I brought my wagon to does exhaust work full time. Day in and day out at the muffler shop it's daily drivers that he does. But all the custom and performance work for street rods and such is done at his house. I've seen his work and it's show quality. When I brought the wagon to him he stated "your not going to get any better than what you have there. Ford did this right and the cats are the best flowing your going to get, if you want me to take off your original exhaust system I will because I like money but you will be wasting it as this exhaust will give the most torque". So with that said I left what I had on and I am very pleased with the mileage I'm getting with the cam straight up not retarded 8*.
    Instead I spent some money getting my rims painted and remachined and clear coated. Don't they look sharp? image.jpeg
    That's the original dinoc too.
     

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