Improving a 460 (power and mileage)

I'm ordering my new timing chain set today and I'm going to have a friend who's out of work install it. Read on the 460 forums that a 1977 460 timing set was installed 4-5 degrees retarded right from the factory. I guess this helped with emissions but killed horse power and fuel mileage. So the idea here is to install a 1970 429 set or an after market one straight up with no retarded timing or even advance it 4 degrees. If any one has input on this it would be appreciated. Also going to have friend loosen my exhaust manifold nuts at the pipes so as I can bring it in to have a new dual exhaust with high flow cats installed. It currently has the original exhaust (single) and cats that I believe are very restrictive. Also wanted a crossover installed but the exhaust guy says it's not worth it on a low performance engine like mine. Again gentlemen give me you opinions please.

Love doing this stuff myself but I am working twelve hours a day seven days a week and have no time. Now that spring is here I have lots of projects on the go and it looks like I'll be using vacation time to work on them. Oh well I guess I could be laid off with no money but lots of time. LOL

 

IMO your on the rite track when it comes to the timing chain.

http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/Timing-rear-comparison-index.html

I plan some day to do this to a 74 460 but have been told by many not to expect a change at the gas pump, performance yes. A year ago I did a lot of home work on the 460 but my memory is a bit foggy now but I will be following this thread..... and mite start looking back into this now that you have brought it up.

Using search features form sites, google, Yahoo, etc I was able to find a lot of info.

These are a good place for info also if you hunt around, learned a lot back then, from them....

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/

 

While he's at it, replace the existing nuts with brass ones so you don't have to fool with the rusted nut syndrome in the future. It will save you some future grief. Any good auto parts store will carry them. They are half again as thick as a standard nut.

 

Fat tedy that link worked as a comparison for the timing sprocket key way alignment. The parts store said they had the correct one in stock and when I compared it to the link picture it was the retarded sprocket. That saved me a bunch of headaches and now have the right one ordered.

Old fox thanks for the tip on the nuts. I have an assortment of stainless nuts and bolts so I'll be using that instead of brass.

Getting anxious for summer trips in southern ontario. I'll have to post fuel mileage to see what we end up with. Now before anyone jumps me I know this is not a fuel injected and computer controlled engine so mileage will be crappy but it's fun to try for better and get some passing ability on the highway, along the way.

Also going to look into getting the distributer recurved and the carb set up on an engine analyzer. That should about be all I can do without a cam, piston and head swap.

 

See if a magnet will stick to them. If it does, they will still rust. Brass ones will always come off.

 

"An assortment of is one....." is one thing, IMO it's best to not step over a dollar to save a dime. Get new proper bolts/studs from the start.

I would also recommend once the old bolts are out (and none break) you get a bottom tap and re-do the threads then make sure you blow them out. A couple buds who do engines all ways do that.

OF, wouldn't you think a stainless steel stud, hardened manifold washers and brass nuts would be a better way to go? Just going from what I've been suggested.

 

Don't think I'm going to mess with the manifold studs once those things are in their in if you know what I mean. If a bunch break well that's a different story and I will cross that bridge if I have to. When I said assortment I should have said I have the right washers and larger style nuts in 316 stainless and that's pretty much top shelf stuff. If you want any questions answered on corrosion prevention or how to unseize something just ask as I work for a salt company and EVERYTHING corrodes. The 305 stainless will dissolve pretty quickly at my plant in certain circumstances. Copper leaches out pretty quickly and what's left is porous and brittle. I've seen Chinese 316 corrode and the North American stuff look brand new right next to it. We also use cathartic protection for buried brine lines and it works well. We have stuff from the 50's going strong and although I'm not familiar with the new car electrical protection I think it's based on the same principal. Others may want to weigh in on that. Though still point has been taken about brass for a couple of bucks, it probably won't be something I deal with, a brass nut will come off much easier in the future than a stainless the only problem with them is they don't take a lot of tork to fail hence the reason they come off easy as they won't break a stud.

 

The new 460 I had in a 1977 Ford Supercab got 9MPG in town traffic, highway, pulling a 5th wheel RV, and parked.
With the 5th wheel I had one of those big rig deflectors also. Still 9MPG

 

Make sure to degree the cam so you know exactly where it's really at.
And then go with an adjustable multi-keyway timing set.
And does it have points or a Duraspark2? Go with DS2 ignition setup.

 

With the exhaust, yes you want the cross over. First, it does improve performance and gas mileage. An X is better than the H, but either is essential. If you damage a muffler, the cross-over can save your engine by balancing the back pressure. The other thing for gas mileage is to make sure the carburetor is set properly. Most people end up running these cars on the rich side, and there goes the gas mileage. With my 78 Thunderbirds with the 351M, I managed a solid 10 liters/100 km, which is 28 miles to the Imperial gallon, and the only thing not stock was exhaust. If you really want a boost in gas mileage, go with a mechanical AOD from an 80s Ford F-150. That will give you a noticeable increase.

 

CatmodelT that fuel mileage is giving me shivers!

MikeT 1961 right on about the carb, when the exhaust and timing chain are done, I'm going to bring the wagon into a shop that specializes in older cars and still has the equipment to recurve the distributor and set the carb up. It's not a points distributer it's original so I would say its a dura spark one. I will be going with the crossover for what ever extra I costs I think everything will help.

 

He's not really that far off, but keep in mind that Cat is referring to his truck witch would have different gears than your wagon. Through the links I provided and BS'n with local buds who build BB Fords a 12-16MPG hyw is about the best to be expected maybe 16+ on a good day, going down hill with a strong tail wind. I'm expecting a 10-14MPG. A 460 is a thirsty motor period, but your driving habits can have a lot to do with over all MPG. If anyone tells you can get 20+MPG out of your 460 just and move along.

 

If anyone tells you can get 20+MPG out of your 460 just and move along.

;-(

 

That 9MPG was in 1977-78 with a new engine and real 100 octain gasoline. Also it didn't seem to matter whether I was in town, on a mountain, or pulling the RV. Also this was in the real world under factory waurantee so I couldn't fool with it.

 

With the 460 in my Montego wagon, I average 10mpg. I checked a couple of times, when I first got it. The car has about 150k original miles on it, with little work done to it. I have added a true dual exhaust since last checking the mileage, so I'll need to re-check. But first, I've got to finish rebuilding my front suspension. It's in pieces, at the moment.

I'm watching this thread, as I'd like to do some work on my 460 when time and money permits.