Front Disc Caliper Identification Help Needed

Discussion in 'General Automotive Tech' started by Wagonrodder, Jan 12, 2023.

  1. Wagonrodder

    Wagonrodder Well-Known Member

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    Hi all! so back a couple years ago on the day i got my 68 Mercury Montego , i remember looking thru the 5 spoke wheels and seeing what i thought were 4 piston Wilwood calipers..however most wilwood calipers ive seen say wilwood on them...the person i got my wagon from just had it sitting a collection and was not the builder, and didnt seem to know much about the build on the car...the calipers have SW2F cast in to them, when i googled that all that came up was a phone gps holder...im wondering, could these be mustang calipers?
    ive never seen what stock manual disc calipers look like, which is what my wagon came with, but im doubting these are stock? the car does have a braking issue i feel is related to these calipers but i wont bore everyone with that until i can identify them...then i will add an additional post to this thread describing it..in advance thank you for any replys!
    Terry
     

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  2. Doghead

    Doghead Well-Known Member

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    What? No vaccuum booster? Do you use both feet to even stop this vehicle at all?
    I can't help identify this caliper. But it looks like a pretty good design. You could pull a brake pad, in order to get a part number or to match its pattern against other pads and then cross reference them to a familiar caliper.
    If You're not using it as a daily driver, simply remove each caliper from their spindles and pump the brakes, to see which piston is hanging up, if that's the problem. You might be able to get away with only a fluid change and just replacing only one pitted piston
     
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  3. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

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    It looks like a Bendix or Moraine design. These have one or two pistons on each side, which was the more common design back then. They were used on Mark IIIs, IIRC, as I worked on a '67 or '68 a long time ago, which had that same design from the factory. I wouldn't be surprised at all if those were that exact caliper. The crossover line is the giveaway.
     
  4. Wagonrodder

    Wagonrodder Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Andrew and Doghead! i will describe the issue now, and i have been wondering if its because the calipers are hooked to the original non power master cylinder, or possibly because the bore of the master cylinder is too small to create adequate hydraulic pressure to power these bad boys...first a couple fast questions...whats a IIRC? , and was this same caliper casting used for both 2 piston and 4 piston setups?
    So, the car has a good solid peddle, its not spongy , and the car does stop in a straight line...the issue is the feeling you get if youve ever driven a car... drum, or disc, where the lining has gotten thin as paper in the front and cant dissipate the heat and the car takes longer to come to a stop than it should with the feeling of brake fade.. thats how this feels...on the test drive i felt this was the issue, stepping harder doesnt seem to help..
    an inspection of all four wheels revealed both rear drum brakes have 2 thirds lining left and are spotlessly clean, and the front calipers appear to have the same, 2 thirds of the pad left...the calipers look like they should put me thru the windshied if i slam them on but instead they give the feeling of a car that needs a brake job...
    Perhaps theres a few ways to solve the issue and would love some advice on that...ive seen the kits to convert to power brakes on ebay that come with most everything including the deluxe brake pedal, but they dont include brake lines, while i do possess a couple of tubing benders and a flaring tool i would rather not go there unless i must...if i looked for a junkyard factory vacuum booster and brake lines then just added a new master cylinder might that be easier?
    also ive considered just going back to the factory manual calipers that still would stop better than it does now but is it likely if these are Lincoln calipers that the rotors were replaced with larger diameter lincoln rotors as well where i would be looking at buying my factory rotors as well as the factory calipers? I would like to make these work if possible as it looks like someone did a good job on the conversion however im guessing the end result was not what they were hoping for...its always a challenge on conversions trying to figure out what someone else did....again thanks in advance for any advice and taqke care!
    Terry
     
  5. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

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    IIRC-->"If I remember correctly"

    Is your MC the original single chamber unit? Or is it dual chamber? If it's dual chamber, perhaps looking at the specs for a '68 Mark III might yield a closer match to what you need. A single chamber is only for the lowest common denominator four-wheel drum brakes, and it has zero safety factor, because all fluid goes through one single flex hose.,
     
  6. Wagonrodder

    Wagonrodder Well-Known Member

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    decoding the numbers on my wagon show it left the factory with manual steering and manual front disc brakes...and it has a dual chamber master cylinder that im under the impression is original..

    20230113_124536[3654].jpg 20230113_124536[3654].jpg 20230113_124536[3654].jpg
     
  7. Doghead

    Doghead Well-Known Member

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    That's nowhere near an original FoMoCo master cylinder.
    I've never even heard of manual disc brakes on an American vehicle. Perehaps, early British sportscars had them, since disc brakes first appeared on these. But, yours can't properly function, without a vaccuum booster. If you can't find an original, you could make one from another brand fit, if necessary
     
  8. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

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    There actually were many cars up to the early '80s with factory manual discs. My dad's '78 Fairmont 2-door sedan was a great example. The only three options he could get that he wanted were the 200 CID I-6, AM radio and the rear window defogger. Anyway, for Leadslead's '66 Breezeway, I found out on another forum that the front disc setup from '65-'71 is all the same, and came with or without booster. To get what we needed, we ransacked a '71 LTD (Large Thirsty Dog) sedan of the complete sets of all parts, basically cals, brackets, rubber and hard lines, prop valve, booster and M/C, etc., to make the conversion.
     
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  9. Wagonrodder

    Wagonrodder Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps i was mistaken about seeing a letter designation when i decoded the tag but looking today at my factory manual i am confused...it states that a dual chamber drum, master has the chambers of equal size, and the disc model has a big, and a small chamber that mine does have...however the manual states a drum master has both line fittings on the side, and the factory power disc model has one out the side, and one out the bottom...but as an exception it says some mustangs and cougars with power disc had them both out the side as mine does...so i dont know what i have..the manual also states there should be a "B" on the end of the master cylinder if its a power disc, and a "T" if its factory drum...because someone painted mine and added fake covers to the fittings, and the cnc lid it makes it different looking..i cant find either letter on it anywhere...sheesh, more variables..leaving me even more unsure what to do..im thinking i would like to convert to power disc with the vacuum tank and master cylinder but dont know what to get, and or if my current purporting valve would need to be replaced as well so its feels im going backwards on what to do...

    20230113_141628[3657].jpg
     
  10. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

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    That master itself is NOT a factory unit, it IS aftermarket, but it is for a front disc setup. The only thing to find out about the calipers and the master, are if the bore diameters are compatible.
     
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  11. Wagonrodder

    Wagonrodder Well-Known Member

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    it sounds as though there were both a 1" and a 1 1\8" bore..in mercury cars...was just looking on napa and all the disc models have the front line out the bottom and a bleeder where my front line is...this master is pretty old as well so i wouldnt mind replacing it however i dont know what to buy...simplest would be to get a factory disc master i guess but at the very least replumbing unless i can bend that front line down...and keeping it manual for now...might that work? im wondering if i could use my existing metering block? also if i wanted to try to find a power set up in a junk yard what full size ford models and years might work?
     
  12. Doghead

    Doghead Well-Known Member

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    That metering block looks factory. That and the proportioning valve aren't different from the ones used on power brake systems, because both devices don't know if you're stepping on the pedal with boost or not.
    What you will have to do is to extend that line going to the rear brakes, if you choose to boost. This can be done, using the proper adapting connections designed for doing this, a double-folding flaring tool and some line.
    Judging by your firewall, it looks like the boosters mounted for powered systems were of the long and narrow type, on these. From here, it doesen't look like any of the short and wide types would fit. This would move the master considerably forward. In which case, you should be able to get away with loosening the fittings connecting the front brakes, including the metering valve, and then letting the brakelines bend themselves accordingly, before tightening all fittings in place. Just in case any of these lines don't co-operate, it's best to have a tubing bender available
    If the 200 l-6 wasn't standard, what would have been even smaller? Did these get Pinto 4-bangers?
     
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  13. Wagonrodder

    Wagonrodder Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Doghead and Andrew for the tips and information...ive learned a lot...Doghead, where might i buy adapting fittings if i wanted to extend the rear brake line? might NAPA have them? and thank you for the tip about the size of the booster causing interference with my firewall, it does have a lip that overhangs so to speak,...i am familiar somewhat with the 2 different sizes and that thought had not occured to me about firewall interference ...i was looking at some power brake conversion kits on ebay, likely made in china and now it appears they are of the short and wide type.. im going to have to try to find out what ford, Lincoln, full size vehicles might have the booster and related parts that would work in my montego...around here where i live sadly most of the wrecking yards have gone away..Andrew, im curious too..if the inline 6 was an option in the Fairmont of your fathers, was the non option motor the 4 cyl? and what did the manual disc brakes feel like before you converted to power?
     
  14. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

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    Yup, standard was the 2.3L. A friend of mine in high school, his dad had a 4-banger auto (Dad's/mine had a 3-on-the-floor), and boy was it sllloooooowwwwwwwww.......
     
  15. Doghead

    Doghead Well-Known Member

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    NAPA should have them, along with steel brakeline tube of which could be purchsased in needed length
    :naughty: You'd want to take your personal safety as well as that of others in traffic into consideration. Besides, there are also moral issues surrounding buying anything from there: https://twitter.com/i/status/1595799465620750336



    There are remanufactured original units available of which have fresh daiphragms installed into them. I don't know if they want a core returned, though:


    https://www.carid.com/1973-mercury-montego-brake-boosters/
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
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