Couple questions on 77 Chevy wagon

Here is a quick article going through some of the basics of both a thorough and a quick and dirty retrofit to give you a basic idea of what is going on: http://www.aa1car.com/library/retrofit.htm

I have heard of a lot of people going the quick and dirty route and getting good results. Personally if I were to retrofit one of my cars, I'd rather take the time to go through everything. You might be surprised to find that outside of the compressor, a lot of the other components are actually relatively inexpensive. Seeing as how the newest R-12 car is over 20 years old and yours is going on 40 years old, it might not be a bad idea to invest in some newer parts.

The actual work itself is not too bad, but it does require some special tools that you might not use much unless you plan on doing A/C repair on other cars. You can get a good Yellow Jacket manifold, gauges, and hoses for about $130 (much preferred over the cheap made in China crap at AutoZone and Harbor Freight), but you will also need a vacuum pump to do the work yourself as well as a handful of fittings. There are cheap vacuum pumps available, but I don't know how well they work. I got lucky and inherited my grandfather's ancient Robinair vacuum pump that is probably 45 years old, but still works great. Let that be a lesson in buying quality tools once.

There is plenty of information available online on basic A/C operating principles, and a good factory service manual should also have a wealth of information for you.

 

I have found most of the time when the A/C doesn't work on an older car it is because something is wrong, most times the compressoris bad (not always) If the belt has been removed it is for a reason, not just because the PO did not want to replace it.
Also I do not have an issue paying someone for the time it takes to do a Job, My currant job has me traveling quite a bit, and for some reason my wife wants to spend time with me when I do have a weekend off, why I don't know. If you spend a weekend removing, cleaning, replacing and reinstalling a head liner how many hours are you working on it? At least 8 probably more. So to do it for $200 he is only making $20 and hour? I don't know how he keeps the shop open at those rates, but good for you guys if you can get that type of deal.
I did want the headliner to look stock, and it does look fantastic, and he warrentied it for up to 10 years if I still owned the car. When I retire in about 10years (hopefully!!!!!) I will have the time to try my hand on such things. Fingers crossed!!!!

 

Two thoughts.

First, on the headliner. The 1977-1990 B-body wagons all use the same rigid headliner backing board. It comes out in two pieces. The problem with the headliner in these cars is that the foam on the foam-backed cloth disintegrates and causes the cloth to come back down. The right way to fix it is to remove the backer boards, clean up all the old foam, and clue down new material with contact cement. The biggest problem with this is removing the garnish trim above the rear side windows and back window. This metal trim is held in place with plastic clips. It is nearly impossible to remove the trim without breaking at least some of the clips. Replacement clips are NOT available anywhere. Trim shops I talked to wanted to reinstall the trim by drilling holes and using screws. I declined.

Second, on the A/C. As noted, a non-functioning A/C is usually due to a problem, likely a leaking seal on the compressor shaft. I have done the quick and dirty evacuate and fill with R-134 every year and it usually lasts a season. When it got to the point that I had to do it more than once a year, I replaced the compressor. You also want to replace the drier and orifice tube and flush the system. Most places won't guarantee the compressor unless you do it all, and frankly the orifice tube has always been blocked when I replaced it. I have a vacuum pump and set of gauges, so evacuating and refilling is easy for me. I will say that I've never bothered to replace hoses when converting to R-134, though I have replaced the o-rings with the green silicone ones. That's pretty easy to do. So far, no problems with this conversion on three 1980s B-body GMs (84 Custom Cruiser, 85 Delta 88, and 86 Caprice wagon).

 

I appreciate all the help and suggestions. I am not the least bit worried about the headliner anymore. Although it looks fairly easy, I am sure it will be a dirty pain in the A.

The air conditioning part also looks like it is manageable doing myself, I just checked prices on Rock Auto and it looks like I can replace everything needed including a new compressor for $250 or a little more with the freon. So it looks like if I get the car, (or another like it) I will be doing the repairs myself. Sure beats the $1,500 estimates I have heard from shops. I don't mind them charging for their services, but it pains me when I am paying for something that I can or should do myself.

Thanks again
Jim

 

That's about what I paid. Keep in mind that you do need an R134 gauge set and a vacuum pump.

 

Good thinking. If you need help it's better than messing up. I realize not everyone can do some things and many have a job and a real life. Rock Auto is a great place to do business.
I think years ago people were convinced AC was a mystery and only certain people could work on it. When it comes to the final flush and fill many places like your friendly NAPA do that reasonably. They also can do the new hose ends.
As for those glue up headliners, yes, they are a big mess. That foam turns to powder and dust and goes everywhere.

 

I did buy the car that I was asking the original questions about. A very very clean 1978 Impala wagon with 50,000 original miles, I am the 4th owner. The car is not loaded, but it is a great running vehicle.

Follow up on the Air Conditioning;

I finally got around to working on the air, I had a local shop put a vacuum on the system and it held just fine for 40 minutes. With that in mind, I bought a new evaporator / dryer and some compatible compressor oil and three new cans of 134A refrigerant.

All in all, it took me longer to educate myself on the internet than it did to replace the parts and charge the system. I now have ICE COLD AIR, and it only cost me about $160 counting the costs to evacuate the system.

Follow up on the ceiling panels;

I ordered material on line, and nit ended up running me about $125 and that included the glue. I removed the headliner panels, removed the ratty foam with a 4 inch angle grinder with a cup wire brush attached. It was a dirty messy job, but well worth the time and effort to do, the entire job only took about 4-5 hours of work, but the panels had to sit and let the glue dry overnight before replacing them... The car looks like brand new inside now.

Thanks for the encouragement to tackle the jobs, Jim

 

Stuff

It's great to read a nice follow up story. Son has been explaining modern AC to me. Some of it I understand, the rest I fake. He's replacing his 87 Chevy truck radiator again. Also all the AC parts at under $300 since the condensor goes between radiator and support. This includes a new modern compressor and most everything.
The new elcheapo radiator only lasted a year. His original AC compressor had a leak after he did attempt to recharge and use it with modern AC gas. Hopefully this time everything will work.

From my experiences with those foam backed headliners the biggest problem is the mess.

Been waiting two weeks to get my AC hoses crimped at our local NAPA for the 55 Chevy wagon. They have a dozen emplyees but only one to crimp AC hoses and he got hurt the day we took them in! I know nothing about it but it doesn't seem to need a rocket scientest.
Everything we need is either not in stock or takes forever to get. No wonder my hair is falling out and I look so old. This car hobby is not fun anymore.