Two handling questions

Discussion in 'General Automotive Tech' started by Dead Reckon, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. Dead Reckon

    Dead Reckon "Rocket" Pilot

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    Before you go on about $700 in parts to make a land yacht handle better, I live in the blue ridge mountains, IE, rolling hills, windy roads, so I'd love to do something to iron out the suspension made of a heavily used bouncy castle, and the steering wheel doesn't feel like it's connected too the wheels feel.


    Looking at a sway bar kit for my car, and the control arms that go with it, meant for B body wagons, anyone got any experience with it.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-2201/overview/make/oldsmobile/model/custom-cruiser

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-1305/overview/make/oldsmobile/model/custom-cruiser

    So that brings me to my second question, can I tighten up the responsiveness of my steering? I noticed the steering box on third gen Camaro's, and the steering assembly on them is very similar to my car, yet they have a tighter feeling steering, for reasons which must come down to the pump, or the box.

    Basically, I'm trying to put a list of parts together for my car so I can budget it out, buy them, and start assembling said huge pile of parts in a frenzy of freeing rusted bolts. So this is one of several threads I'll probably have relating to said parts list. Thanks for the advice, this ole' tank may still wear the Oldsmobile badge when I'm done, but she won't handle like any other Oldsmobile. 'Cept maybe the Stickman's car, but he was somewhat of the inspiration of this build.
     
  2. Krash Kadillak

    Krash Kadillak Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading an article, a long, long time ago in Car & Driver where they attempted to put some improvements into a Chevy Caprice. I believe it was a '79 model or so.

    One of the changes was incorporating a steering gear (or possibly just changing the spool valve inside) from a Camaro. This turned out to be the biggest improvement in their whole project. They said it reduced steering wheel turn lock-to-lock by about 30%, and firmed up the steering feel.

    So......you're on the right track.

    Marshall
     
  3. Dead Reckon

    Dead Reckon "Rocket" Pilot

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    That's why I ask in places like this, you remember things from a time when I was not alive. Most people my age can't be bothered to ask for advice, whereas I am of the train of thought "They made the mistakes, why can't I learn from them and make fewer?".

    Anyway, thanks a lot for that, I'll look into how hard it is to tear down one of these pumps. I've got a spare unit on my parts car I can tinker with, with another couple or so in the junkyard I could also toy with for only the cost of removing them.

    I wonder if I could just put the pitman arm meant for my car on the box of a Camaro? I'm going to have to get some junkyard parts and toy with this.

    I'll make a thread when I do that, probably won't be 'til spring 'cause the job I may have lined up doesn't start until mid to late September if I get it. I'll try to document if changing the pitman arm works, what it's like to tear down one of these boxes, so on, so forth.

    One thing us wagon owners never worry about, traction. If you slide these cars on pavement, you are probably going faster than the speedometer ever could read.

    Also, thanks a lot for that advice, really does help. I don't believe in stereotypes, any sort of them, and I don't believe that these cars have to handle stereotypically boat like if you do not desire them to do so. Sure it will never handle "great" by modern standards, at best probably akin to a modern full sized "Sport" truck, but, that's good enough for me!
     
  4. ModelT1

    ModelT1 Still Lost in the 50's

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    I've driven a Chevy van, a Dodge van, a Class "A" motorhome, an old Harley, and our 55 Chevy wagon on the Blue Ridge Parkway and Sky Line Drive. Plus many of those little lanes into and down the mountains between both ends.
    No matter what steering box I had my knuckles were white and my panties were always in a bind!
    On my 1941 Ford with Camaro subframe changing the pressure valve in the box helped the spooky steering a lot.
     
  5. jmt455

    jmt455 Well-Known Member

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    I have swapped steering gears out to get more responsive steering on my Bonneville wagon.

    You are on the right track. You might also want to look at the performance steering box from a second generation F body (1970-1981 Firebird/Camaro). Fewer turns lock-to-lock and better feel. I'm not certain, but I think you would need adapters if you went with the 2nd generation gearbox because they were the 45 degree flare fittings and I think yours are the O ring style.

    You could also look at the steering gear from a "G" body with the performance handling package. That would be a 1984-87 Monte Carlo SS, Buick GN or Olds 442 with the F41 or FE3 handling options.

    There were more than one diameter front and rear stabilizer bars available for your car. If your car doesn't have the largest available bars, you can find the bars from a 1977-1996 B body wagon that was equipped with the trailering/towing package and also upgrade to urethane or harder rubber bushings, you will find a significant improvement in body roll. The sedan rear bar does not work on a wagon.

    Also, google Ford rear sway bar for station wagon; I remember there is a common swap that allows you to use a standard, Ford full-size bar in a wagon like yours.

    Have fun!
     
  6. HandyAndy

    HandyAndy Well-Known Member

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  7. Bigbarneycars

    Bigbarneycars Well-Known Member

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    Stiff ride

    You want to tighten it up your steering some? Check with your neighbors on the short track over in Bristol and see what they do. Just because they keep turnin' left doesn't meen you can't make it work for rite turnz too:D
     
  8. Dead Reckon

    Dead Reckon "Rocket" Pilot

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    Yeah those trailing arms he used are very similar to the ones I'm buying, but this is designed as a kit so I won't have the nightmare he did.

    Anyway, I was well aware of the sedan's not having the sane sway bars, as well as other things. The fenders on the sedan's are different, too, missing a body line that's only on the wagons. (For the Oldsmobile's anyway, dunno about other B bodies)

    Fun fact, any column, from any 82-89 B body, will fit in any other B body from those years. We had a Caprice Column and wheel in the car for a while, now currently a Buick Column and wheel, soon to be the gone through column from my '89 with an aftermarket wheel if I can find one to fit.

    I'm somewhat familiar with what will and won't bolt across these cars. but knowing some things from other peoples attempts helps too. :D

    Thanks a lot, I'll look into the F body and G body steering boxes. I was also afraid that the 82-92 Camaro box looked different on the bottom, guess that's what you meant by flared lip. I've been under those cars a couple of times. I HATE jacking those cars up, they sit so low you have to get them dangerously high.
     
  9. Fat Tedy

    Fat Tedy Island Red Neck

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    Yup, you want your wagon to handle like it's on train tracks follow Stickman's builds


    On a side note, I know your trany is down at the moment but if you get it up and driving even putting in a rear sway bar (don't know if you have one now or not) to the all stock suspension will make a nite and day difference
     
  10. Dead Reckon

    Dead Reckon "Rocket" Pilot

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    Yeah I know, I'm gonna be changing these sway bars after I replace the trans, along with putting new shocks up front with springs, and new ball joints. I'll be getting an alignment 'cause the old ball joints have been gnawing on my tires, my father says it's out of alignment, but I don't think so. Those ball joints are factory, I'll just use the heavy duty over sized ones.

    When I yank the 307 and trans, I'm gonna go through and rebuild the A arms, and drop the differential so I can go through everything back there. It will be off the road for about a month. I may replace the A arms with tubular A arms just to see if they make any difference. They sell 'em to fit my car amazingly.

    It's got a fairly new center link, new tie rods, and a new idler arm down there, but the bushings are horrid looking, cracked and pancaked.

    Anyway, stickman's build is my inspiration as I said, I may not use the exact parts, but they should perform the same.
     
  11. busterwivell

    busterwivell Bill, AZ Geezer

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    You'll like the F body, G body steering boxes. My 66 Chevelle had manual steering when I bought it.........I converted to a Trans Am box and loved it! I also love the way my 86 Monte Carlo SS works with the stock box, nothing like a regular Monte or Malibu.
     
  12. Dead Reckon

    Dead Reckon "Rocket" Pilot

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    Thanks for the info, sounds like a plan. How hard was it to put on the box?
     
  13. Steve-E-D

    Steve-E-D Well-Known Member

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    I was going to mention tie rod ends and center link but it sounds like you've already got that covered. They can make a huge difference in sloppy steering.
     
  14. 200OZ

    200OZ Well-Known Member

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    Stiffer shocks, and larger sway bars are what will make the biggest difference.

    Look for a bar off a tow pack B body wagon (any year will do). Look for some thing about 1 3/16", that is what the tow pack cars got, boxys, and bubbles. The Ford Panther platform bars fit great on the B wagons too, go with one of those. Shocks are a huge difference maker, don't buy stock replacements at the parts store, get some good performance shocks, Monroe Severe Service are a good bang for the buck. I like the Bilstiens my self. A quicker steering box is really nice, but you need to take the roll out of the car first.
     
  15. Dead Reckon

    Dead Reckon "Rocket" Pilot

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    Yeah I've got my eye on bilstien b6 HD's, and come highly recommended. I've already found a sway bar and control arm kit I'm going for, it's overkill, but, why fix it if you aren't fixing it to a state better than the factory ever did?

    EDIT, decided I'm going to pair those metco control arms with the hotchkis sway bar, going to replace the front sway bar too, 'cause, why not? Don't know if it'll make a difference, but, out with the old, in with the new :D

    So here's the shocks, springs, control arms, and sway bar kit I'm looking at:

    Sway bar kit:

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hss-2201/overview/make/oldsmobile/model/custom-cruiser

    Control arms:

    http://www.metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MCA0012&cat=94

    Shocks, front and rear:

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/b...ear/1986/make/oldsmobile/model/custom-cruiser

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/b...ear/1986/make/oldsmobile/model/custom-cruiser

    And, springs:

    http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=440084&cc=1421604

    http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=440513&cc=1421604

    I may source beefier front springs for the front because I plan to drop in a 350, but I dunno, they seem to use the same ones even with the 350 diesel. Either way, I don't think many people go through the process of doing all this to a wagon, do they?

    EDIT: Also going with some AC Delco oversized replacement ball joints, they're the heavy duty ones.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013

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