Wagon or not?

Curious to hear your verdict on this question. New 'crossover' suvs, wagons or not? Read a long time ago somewhere in a car magazine that they were still a truck. My feeling is that they are built on a car chassis, so they're not really a truck, but I'm not sure I'd call them a wagon either.

 

Well, they are classified as cars, are supposed to appeal to moms who don't want to drive a mini van or a
large SUV, are supposed to be safer for kiddies and moms regarding roll over fears, are slightly more fuel
efficient and most can't climb a hill or pull a trailer. They really aren't utilitarian enough to get all your stuff
in them but are good for groceries; not that any of their owners, most of whom probably opt for leather seats,
would ever put a ladder, sheet rock, plywood or paint buckets in them to begin with...
I wouldn't even call them cross overs but I certainly wouldn't call them wagons.
(even makes a mini van sound like a good deal when I ponder the pros and cons,...)
(always did liked my '94 Grand caravan)
The only one that come close to a traditional wagon, in my mind, would be the Ford Flex and upcoming Taurus wagon.
The Chevy Traverse and GMC Acadia, my favorites, are much more truck than wagon or crossover.
They can however fit loads of stuff and even haul your camper....



That's my opinion, such as it is...

 

My 2001 Jimmy is classed as a light truck not a car. His back seats fold down and I have six feet of enclosed cargo space and have used it plenty of times. Similar but not a stationwagon.

 

I don't consider them wagons, myself. Anything that makes me scratch my head and go, is it technically a wagon, I'm not wasting my time on. The only one I ever even let slide, that I shouldn't is the old Jeep Grand Wagoneers. They just have that wagon feel.

 

----------Now lookie what fannie had to say! We were just discussing why many vehicles, boats, planes, go carts, etc have girlie names....And she calls her Jimmy a HE ! Maybe it is a sexual thing! My son had a GMC and she was cute!--------------And a truck is not a truck if there is no truck bed! A stupid SUV is just an adult toy to impress other yuppies! I rest my case!

 

Interesting side note, If any of you (other than Eagle Freak) remember the AMC Eagle, what I would call the first crossover/SUV, they were actually classified as trucks. Even though they never made an Eagle truck. They had 2 & 4 door sedans, wagons, a version called a Kammback (Looked like a Gremlin), & another one called an SX/4. NONE of which ever even resembled a truck. But I agree that they aren't a wagon. I DO agree with the comment that the new FORD Flex does look like a wagon. I certainly wouldn't call a mini-van a wagon.

 

My sister's Jimmy is also a 'he'

 

They are wagons to me. The term "station wagon" is not a hip and "sexy" ad term, so some ad guy somewhere came up with "crossover", to describe the vehicle as a never-before-seen "crossover" between an SUV and a minivan.

Hence, the modern station wagon. The automakers aren't about to admit they were wrong by ceasing station wagon production in the early '90s and that they are reintroducing what has always been a successful body style. They had to call it something "new" to make consumers think they actually were getting something "new", when as we know, the concept is nearly a hundred years old!

Went to look at a new Chrysler Pacifica a few years ago, when they first came out. I remember asking the sales toad about the new Pacifica station wagon and that I wanted to drive it. He said "Station wagon?" with a completely confused look. I said "Yes, you have a Durango SUV over there, and a Caravan minivan over there, and you have a Pacifica station wagon over there. See?" He said, "Oh, that is a crossover, it's a mix of a minivan and an SUV! Pretty novel concept!"...So, I pointed to my old Volare wagon out front and said "Yeah, novel, just like that Volare out there, right?"

"What's a Volare?"

I walked away smiling. And not buying.

 

I walked away smiling. And not buying. ===Vehicles like clothes have been around many years. Clothes a little longer for obvious reasons. But what is old today will be new again soon. We'll soon be wearing bellbottoms and driving station wagons. Amazingly there were some really brilliant mechanical inventions before computers and executives in offices decided what we should be driving.:confused: For a long time I wondered what a "shooting brake" was! Or why a car needed a bonnet or a boot! When the term "crossover" first came out I thought it had to do with duel or flex fuel! But I am still living in the past. Our kids drive SUV's. I see nothing sporty about any of them.

 

So when I read this I was abit insulted! Then I reread it twice and I'm trying to understand if you were trying to be humorous??? Still not sure???
Anyway I went off looking for information because maybe I have been confused about my Jimmy all this time. And this is what I have found...


The K5 Blazer was the smallest full size SUV version of the General Motors C/K Trucks family. Introduced to the Chevrolet line in 1969, the full-size Blazer was replaced in 1995 by the Chevrolet Tahoe. In 1970, GMC introduced its own model of the truck, called the Jimmy, which lasted until the 1992 GMC Yukon. Both were based on the short wheelbase trucks and were available with either rear-wheel drive or four-wheel drive. The Blazer's long wheelbase relative (with an integrated rear body, and doors for 2nd row passengers) is known as the Chevrolet Suburban.
The K5 Blazer and Jimmy had "full convertible" removable tops until 1975. In 1976, GM introduced a half-cab design that was less prone to leaks and slightly safer in a roll-over. These half cabs are convertible starting at a few inches behind the driver/passenger doors all the way back to the tailgate. In 1992, the Blazer was redesigned completely and no longer had a removable top.
Smaller models, the S-10 Blazer and S-15 Jimmy, were introduced alongside these trucks in 1983. The original Blazer and Jimmy remained in production until 1991; 1992 saw the introduction of a new K1500 Blazer (and the rebadged GMC Yukon) on the GMT400 platform. After 1994, the Blazer was renamed the Chevrolet Tahoe and it was offered in a two-door model up until 1999. After that it was offered only with four passenger doors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_K5_Blazer

So then I clicked on the s-15 Jimmy link cause that's what mine is and this is what I found...

The S-series SUVs, so named because they were based on the Chevrolet S-10 and GMC S-15 pickup trucks, were produced in Pontiac, Michigan; Linden, New Jersey; Moraine, Ohio; Shreveport, Louisiana; and São Paulo, Brazil (the Brazilian version is based on the second-generation S-series; even though production ceased in the U.S., new Blazers are locally produced in Brazil with their own sheetmetal stampings). In North America, the Moraine plant produced only 4-door vehicles, with both 2 and 4 door models being produced at Linden, which was the main assembly plant after the switch (some time after 1995) from Pontiac, Michigan, which is now a full-size truck plant.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S-10_Blazer


So just for kicks and because we have a few folks here that appreicate suburbans I decided to check out that link as well, and look what they had to say...


The Chevrolet Suburban is a large sport utility vehicle from Chevrolet. It is the longest-lived continuous automobile nameplate still in production, dating from 1935. The Suburban has been produced under the Chevrolet, Holden, and GMC marques until the GMC version was rebranded as the GMC Yukon XL. For most of its recent history, the Suburban has been a station wagon-bodied version of the Chevrolet pickup truck, including the Chevrolet C/K and Silverado series of truck-based vehicles. Cadillac offers a version called the Escalade ESV. The Suburban has traditionally been one of General Motors' most profitable vehicles.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Suburban

The way I understand it, I am the PROUD owner of a smaller version of an suv that is a station wagon bodied version of a pickup truck.

kinda full circle.

As for your comment, I have decided that sometimes to much sun can confuse old people when they are trying to be funny and maybe it just doesn't come across that way...I rest my case.

 

fannie thanks for all the information. I still think that only a vehicle with an actual truck bed is a truck. There are so many names and cross references most vehicles can be clasified as anything the builder and owner wishes. And I was joking about calling your Jimmy a HIM! In this case he actually has a male name...for the most part. I'm sure there are women named Jimmy somewhere! And the sun has nothing to do with what I think. I was thunkin much the same when back in the mid-west! I also rest your case!

 

I knew a couple different families in town that had an AMC Eagle. I'd still call the wagon version a wagon, since there were other body styles and it was pretty much just a Concord built on an AWD frame.

I say a truck has a frame, cab, and sometimes a box, if not then just more frame back there where you can put on what you want. Anything built with a similar front half, and enclosed passenger compartment that goes all the way back, I say is an SUV. This excludes a van, which has a similar passenger compartment but a whole different type of front section.

I think a wagon is only a variant of a car model that comes in other styles, like coupe or sedan. Coupe has 2 doors and a trunk, sedan has 4 doors and a trunk. Wagon has no trunk, and the rear gate goes basically all the way to the floor. Hatchback is like a wagon but a tall fixed area remains which usually contains the taillights. Notchback is like a hatchback, but with a false trunk lid built into the rear gate.

To be a wagon, I think it can't just be a wagon, but needs to be a wagon version of a coupe or sedan. There are probably some exceptions but I can't think of any. Another thing is there is probably some rule of proportions, where it really needs to have the "longroof".

These crossovers, I guess I'd call them just that for now. Because they're their own vehicle and that's it. I'd be more apt to call them SUVs than anything, because they're usually AWD and have extra ground clearance, but they still don't fit my sense of an SUV because they don't have their truck counterpart. Eventually (and maybe already) the term will be overused and we will need to come up with something else. Kinda like what became of "alternative" music in the 90s, it became mainstream.

 

I agree with with what Patrick80 was saying. When Chrysler came out with the Pacifica, I was very excited, as it was clearly a station wagon, regardless of what they called it. It was evidence to me that the manufacturers were realizing that the body style/configuration of a "wagon" was very practical and suited many family's needs. They also realized, incorrectly in my opinion, that they dare not call it a station wagon as that term brought with it a perception of its being less than a modern or efficient vehicle. When Ford came out with the Freestyle, I considered that a station wagon as well, but working for a Ford dealer at the time, I can tell you the powers that be from Ford made it clear to us that we were not to call it a station wagon. It was a "crossover", not a station wagon. Ridiculous. In my opinion, it was every bit as much a station wagon as the last '91 Country Squire. They almost admitted it in '08 when they changed the name to Taurus X; they were conceding it was a model of the Taurus, but just couldn't bring themselves to call it the return of the incredibly popular Taurus Wagon. Heaven forbid!! I can't help but wonder how many more they would've sold if they had had the "courage", (there's another word I want to use, but we're very polite here so I won't), to actually name it what it was, a Taurus Wagon.

 

I think Wagonman summed it up perfectly.

 

Here's a little more fuel for the controversy...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_wagon