Purchase Advice Requested - '95 Roadmaster Wagon

Hi All - Still a newbie here!

As I noted, I am in the hunt for a wagon (or now growing to 2). We are somewhat of a wagon family with a Flex and Outback in the stable. I have my wifey on board with getting a VW Squareback and am quite certain that deal is pretty well locked down - will post pics if she arrives.

My wife also knows that one of my "dream wagons" is a 94-96 Buick Roadmaster - White w/Wood. We agreed that if we found one well cared for and a decent buy/price that I could get is as long as I keep my Flex beyond the payments. Well, one recently posted up on CL only about 40 minutes from my house (Central Minnesota). Below is a link to the add along with a picture for attention. As you will see, the car appears to be clean and only has 70K miles.

As the story goes, this car was originally an AZ Car (they all seem to be AZ or CA cars now don't they ) and owned by a very small pastor. The story even goes that the car was sticker'd up with Jesus stickers. The current owner has had it for 4 years, claiming this is his 5th Buick Wagon (has a 91 and 93 as well still) and this is the one he intended to possibly be his last car.
-He states to have replaced the fluids, including the trans and rear end.
-New shocks all the way around.
-New fuel pump.
-New water pump
-He put the rims on lately and moved the 10 year old tires over off the factory rims. Claims that these tires are "still good" - I know better than that. I generally don't run any of my rubber of 5-6 years regardless of miles. He will discount the car if the factory wheels go on but he didn't say how much. I have no interest in the 15" Cragars.
And I think a couple of other things.
Claims to have $5K in parts and labor.

He is selling to free up some $$$ as he runs his own business and has to have a surgery that will keep him out of work for 3-4 months.

Based on this, what do you all think the car is worth as described. He has it at $9500 which seems steep but there are not that many available clean with lower miles. The reason I am looking for this wagon is the LT1 as it sounds to be an easy motor to put some reasonably priced upgrades into and get some additional performance out of it. May give it a bit of a lower (at least on the rear - and put airbags in the rear to level out for load).

What are the differences in the wagons that have the Towing Package? I believe it was a slightly heavier suspension, trans cooler and rear end? If this care is not equipped is it worth waiting for a Towing package equipped car?

I am going to look at this tomorrow evening - shoot me any feedback and ask any questions, I will be watching.

Thanks in advance!
-Dan

Here is the link:
https://stcloud.craigslist.org/cto/d/1995-buick-roadmaster-deluxe/6274906479.html

Picture for attention:

 

Things to consider:
- WHY has it had $5k work done on it...these cars are reliable as the sun, at least up to 100K+ miles when possible Optispark or transmission issues crop up.
- These cars all had rear air suspension. You say new shocks...what was installed? If he went away from air, he needed to replace the coil springs too, or the rear is going to bottom-out a lot. Moog makes good variable-rate springs, cheap from Rock Auto.
- IS it a tow-pack car? For that price, you really want a tow-pack, which changes out the silly 2.55 open rear for a 2.93 posi, and also gives you heavy-duty cooling. The tow-pack cars feel much quicker, hunt less between gears on the highway, and the transmissions last longer. If not a tow-pack, understand the gearing will make it feel like a dog...but swapping in a 2.93 or better a 3.23 from a 91-93 TBI tow-pack car will totally wake it up.
- It's missing most of the black bodyside trim...does he have it?

Things to know:
- These car DO rust. For $9500, why no underhood or frame pics? Check lower quarter panels and floors well. Do NOT plan to use it in winters....I can't overstate how bad these rust...
- NEVER ever slam the doors on these. The door panels are garbage, and they shatter! No joking, close the door easy.
- Check the power window operation, and ask if the sliders have been replaced. These cars have window issues,
- Mechanical parts are cheap and easy to source, but trim is getting scarce, even here in Texas where cars don't rust.

I flew to New England last May to help a friend pick up a tow-pack '94 wagon in New Hampshire. It was not winter-driven and was VERY solid. He paid 1/3 if the asking price here. Here we are at Stephen King's house in Bangor Maine.


Now I do prefer the 95-95 for the larger door mirrors, but think if you do a little looking around, you can find just as nice a car for less..

If you have not done it, join the GM Longroof Forum. Great group and folks tend to offer nice cars there to other folks that love these, and it's a great source of info on these cars.

I love my white '96 wagon, and have owned it for 10 years now. The interior quality is my main gripe, but the car itself is solid, fun, and I adore mine. Good Luck!



-Texas Mike

 

http://gmlongroof.4umer.com/

THIS is a great forum but the one above is dedicated to the GM Whale Wagons.

-Mike

 

Mike,

I figured and was hoping you may chime in. As mentioned before, I have admired your car from my keyboard. I am adding my response in the body of your quote below:

Thanks again!

 

Dan when you open the hood, if the car has a big fan shroud and an engine-driven fan (belt-run), it's a tow-pack car. It will still have an electric fan too for the a/c, but the main fan will be a big metal belt-driven fan. If it doesn't have a big shroud and had two electric fans, it's not a tow-pack car.

Also, check on the dash to the right of the steering column. If the badge there says DYNARIDE, you have the basic, soft suspension and not a tow-pack. If the badge says GRAN TOURING SUSPENSION, that's the heavy-duty suspension, and the car is most-likely a tow-pack (but the Gran Touring WAS optional without the tow-pack, FYI).

Hope that helps!

-Mike

 

That car is overpriced. For his price you can fly down here, buy one for half price, and drive it home with zero problems.

 

Thanks for the replies guys!

@81X11 (Mike) - I will check that out. I did look at the gmlongroof forum and the DYNARIDE or GRAN TOURING SUSPENSION tags actually do not mean anything. They were supposed to, but if the line was held up they would just put in another tag. Here is a link to the tread - they are trying to figure out what is actually included with the Tow-Pack
http://gmlongroof.4umer.com/t4220-what-exactly-does-the-towing-package-on-the-lt1s-consist-of
Screenshot of post (if you look through there are other people documenting that they do have the Tow-Pack but it states DYNARIDE - QC was not a strong point)

Oh, one thing I didn't answer from your original response: The owner is not a "computer" guy. A friend of him posted the add for him and put his contact info in it. His friend took the pictures and that must have been what he felt was best. I had a thread I started on lack of photos a week or so ago - you already know my thoughts on that. Seeing as the car is only 45 minutes away (he would meet us about 25 minutes out) It is worth the time to look at it. I am not sure the guy is hiding anything, if nothing else, I learn a thing or two that will benifit me when I check out another one.

@elB - If you happen to find or know of any 94-96 Roadmasters in white, with wood, tan leather interior and a tow pack, please send me the info. That is the criteria for me to be allowed to "pull the trigger". My wife has pre-approved that purchase if I want. Also, I am not afraid to buy a car from a distance. If there is one in TN that might work well as the VW Squareback will be coming up from one of the Carolinas if we get that deal done.

Thanks all

 

@81X11 - Just received more information relative to your original response. He had the airbags removed on the rear and had coilovers put in since "they will leak sooner or later anyway" Since the rear end would have to get redone (again) this would be a good reason to put the slight drop in all the way around and put in some heavier airbags I guess.
Thoughts?
The guy seems to be really anal about care and appearance of his stuff, but doesn't seem to have a clue as to what he has. He thought since he had air ride that it had the tow-pack.

 

If it's that close to you, you might as well go see it in person, anyway. Who knows, with a little reality check, he might come down significantly on the price.

 

Thanks again for your replies. I went to look at the Roadmaster last night and thought I would report back.

For $9500 this guy has alot of work to do before I would buy it. On the phone, the car was "perfect". He claims to be selling for health reasons which I could believe, my wife thought he was going to have a heart attack in the back seat on the test drive. The truth seemed to slow come out. He likes to talk himself up. Claims to be "into collector cars, I find them for people and make a little money". He somehow does all of this while "not using computers, I just talk to people on the phone, I don't like the internet". He has "also sold over 200 cars and it getting tired of dealing with people". I am guessing he is a car flipper so I don't know if I buy his story about putting all the parts into this car so that it could be the last Roadmaster he buys.
He claims to have slips for $5K worth of work, but didn't have them with to offer up.
Here is what he stated he has replaced:
-All Fluids
-Starter
-Alternator
-Belt
-Belt Tensioner
-Shocks all the way around - replaced the air ride because "they will leak anyway and they are loud"
-Put new rims on - but put the old tires on them (will discount if the factory wheels go on - "he has plenty of them and is tired of looking at them")

Oh, he also replaces the full size spare with a space saver because the full size it "too hard to get out". He had a spare tire, jack and wrenches in the back of the car. He claimed to have 2 flat tires this week on his other cars, "so you can never be too careful". Because of this, we could not access the 3rd seat but "it has never been up"

Ok, now the car:
- A trim piece between the front and rear doors (between the windows is missing)
-As Mike pointed out, alot of the black trim is missing - "he took it off because it comes off anyway, if you like it I probably have 600 pieces around for you". Side note: It does seem as though the black trim is off alot of these cars and really doesn't look bad without it.
-On the passenger side, the chrome on both doors is dented in several places
-The trim around the woody print was redone with tan by his body guy. It is much stronger and better. This was also coming off on the front corners.
-He was proud that all of the print on the stereo were still good
-The car had a noticeable shake in the steering wheel at all speeds - took it up to 80. I mentioned it to him and he said "Oh, I never noticed it" I then looked at the tires and both fronts are cupped BAD both inner and outer tire. He didn't understand how that could happen since he had them balanced when put on the new rims. For a car guy, he should now that 10 year old tires are not to be trusted.
-My daughter rode shotgun. She politely closed the door and it didn't seal the wind noise, so we stopped and she shut it harder and it sealed.
-Front windows were smooth, both rears bound on the way up.
-The "R" from the Roadmaster trim was missing - he also has spares of this.

I am glad I went to look at it. I learned a few things. The cars with heavy duty cooling for the Tow-Pack should be identifiable by the fan shroud alone. This car did not have Tow-Pack and the dual electrics so it did not have the shroud that sticks above the radiator. Now when searching I should be able to determine by the pictures of the engine compartment - or at least have a better guess. Also, this car was tagged as Grand Touring Tag and DID NOT have the Tow-Pack/heavy suspension. That appears to not really mean anything.

My wife has been "ho hum" about a large V8 wagon and my daughter (14 today) just didn't get it. Well, riding shotgun last night when we started out on the interstate I asked her what she thought, she looked at me with a big grin. When we got back to the gas station we met at, I had to use the potty and my wife asked her about it. She responded about how nice the car really was, how quiet it was an how smooth it rode. So, long story short, a V8 wagon WILL be in my future - this is just not the one for us, unless he drops her to about $5K

 

to daughter Dandy, or Dandy's dandy daughter! Keep her. She gets it! Keep working on the wife about big wagons. She'll soon get it or you may have to get a new wagon and a new wife!

I'd skipped that wagon also. No doubt he hasn't put $5000 into it, maybe $1000. Still it seems he's more of a wheeler-dealer than car collector.

 

More than that-the tire cupping is usually a front suspension/steering problem, as well as a worn shock and older tire problem. He replaced the shocks, so there's no way to know if the excessive bouncing contributed to that. It's likely the wagon had a 'perfect storm' of problems, and not all are solved.

 

Guy sounds like the typical 'curbstoner' (a car dealer who doesn't have a sales lot - masquerading as a private seller). I wouldn't trust him at all.

 

These cars never had air bags in the back. They had air shocks run by a compressor in the lower-right corner of the front bumper, with a level sensor to keep the rear up. If you replace the rear air shocks with regular shocks, you need to replace the metal coil springs too, as the cars with air shocks had weaker springs designed to work with air shocks. The coil-overs can be bought at Autzone, but are not a good solution, as you still have the stock...somewhat weak coil strings, and also tiny gas shocks with coils around them. IF you buy one of these cars, you want to replace the rear coils with variable-rate Moog springs, sold by RockAuto, and then put some good gas shocks on, like KYB Gas-A-Justs. That's the RIGHT ways to set these cars up. I also run the KYBs up front. You still get a smooth ride, but the car is much more firm and the float is gone.

Lowering (and many may argue) is not a great idea on Whale Wagons, because the rear overhang on these cars is SOO LONG that the exhaust tends to rub on even moderately-steep driveways at stock height.

As for the cupping, it may just need an alignment, but most-likely will needs some front-end repairs. These cars are HEAVY. I rebuilt the front end on mine with RockAuto parts at about 100K miles. The idler arm and two ball joints were shot, and my car was babied. These LT1 wagons also use a horizontal steering stabilizer shock, but it's not listed on most parts searches. You have to look one up for a 95-96 Cadillac Fleetwood. That works fine.

 

Oh and I would FOR SURE pass on that car, per your description. It's a $5K car max. Window, trim, tire and suspension needs...for his asking price you should have none of those issues.