Clamshell rust!

Discussion in 'Cosmetic & Restoration' started by aornest, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. aornest

    aornest New Member

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    As promised in the intro thread, here are some pics of the window rust I'm dealing with on my Buick. The windows are solid (the don't "rattle" in the frame like on a buick Sportwagon I saw at a local cruise night), so I'm almost afriad to take them out. I may ty a combo of POR metal ready, putty, and rust paint to stem the tide. Yeah, I know... take 'em out and replace the bad stuff w/metal. I'd like to complete this before spring. If anyone has thoughts... please share!
    Adam
     

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  2. tbirdsps

    tbirdsps New Member Charter Member

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    You could probably "stem the tide" on this but unless you can get to the inside of the panels you'll never get rid of all the rust.

    The metal work is extensive to replace. Very expensive due to the custom forming of the metal unless you have the skills to do it yourself.

    If you cannot afford it your best bet is to at least arrest it but you need to get to the inside areas as well to put a stop to it.

    Either way it's worth it as that's a very nice Buick.
     
  3. aornest

    aornest New Member

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    Thanks for the input and compliment. I do have the ability to form the metal, I'm just afraid that I'll turn a month or so project into a neverending one. (Plus, I'm not thrilled about removing the glass). I'm going to work on it today, and see how much access I have to the backside of things.
     
  4. Stormin' Norman

    Stormin' Norman Well-Known Member

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    You're both right. POR-15 makes a metal prep/arrester that I've used and it works like gang busters. They call it Metal Ready:

    http://www.por15.com/prodinfo.asp?grp=MR&dept=2

    Vinegar is lot safer, cheaper, cleaner, easier to clean up. Mix up a gallon of white vinegar with 2 table-spoons of table salt. Both get down and eat the rust fungus (oxidation).

    Then get their (por15) rust-protection sprays for underneath, and whatever you'll use topside, before body fillers. And then use Pro Form's sealers.

    I'd get one of the small brazing kits and tack up and panel seams that maintain the integrity of the window frame. Bernz-o-Matic make a great little kit. The small OXY bottles are pricey, but the MAP gas lasts a long time. Rods are sold anywhere (Home Depot, etc.)
    http://www.bernzomatic.com/


    http://www.proformproducts.com/en/products/listing/?category=9
     
  5. gpd294

    gpd294 Well-Known Member

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    Just FYI, I also have used the POR-15 stuff and I haven't seen any signs of corrosion whatsoever come back and that has been several months ago, but to be honest my rust wasn't that bad. (Not as many holes, I mean). I had a handfull of small pin holes on my floorboards and I used the POR putty sealer and then the POR rust paint over that.

    Now in the rear cargo compartment, I started grinding away the rust when the rust holes became a lil bit bigger. (2 of them about size of a silver dollar, maybe) I used the putty, but I also incorporate figerglass mesh to help strengthen the gap. Maybe when I get a quote for paint they can take a look at it and if it's not too expensive I'll have them cut and weld in a small metal patch panel, but my thinking is, if the repair is completely sealed then it should be safe to use a bed liner type spray on top of the repair in the cargo area and POR paint underneath to protect it as well to protect it from the elements. (I have already done the repair, but am waiting to apply the bedliner spray, so I can shoot the spare tire compartment as well.) I'll have to scuff up the POR stuff, but I may get away with using the POR self etching primer, but I am not for sure yet. I haven't finished researching how it works exactly.

    Either way good luck with the repair and I hope this helps. Also one last thing, make sure you use latex gloves when using the POR stuff because once dried on your skin it stays there for a while. I had black paint marks on my upper forearms for about a week before it wore off.

    Good luck! And let me know how it came out.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 11, 2009
  6. CapriceEstate

    CapriceEstate Yacht Captain

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    When I bought my 60 Bel Air, the guy swore by POR15, said he had repaired lots of rust on it with the stuff (except for the floorboards that you could see through) and you couldn't even tell he had done it.
     
  7. BlueVista

    BlueVista Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    That's a little too far gone for chewing gum and bailing wire. Depends what you want to do with the car in the future and how much money you want to spend.
    I was reading in Car Craft about the zinc spray for repairing difficult rust areas that the Rustbuster franchises use. If it is good as they say it could be a cheaper and easier alternative than patching and much better than any putty, plus the zinc naturally protects it from rust in the future. They can apply it from 1 mill to a foot thick where there is nothing but a hole. The area has to be sandblasted clean then a molten zinc spray is built up over the holes and pitted areas. They put metal tape behind the holes to hold it until the zinc solidifies. They did a window channel in the article that was like yours and it looked new when done.

    http://www.rustbusters.com/
     
  8. aornest

    aornest New Member

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    Lots of great info... thanks everyone! After disassembly, it appears that the inner channel is solid, so if I removerd the windows, access would be easy. I'm thinking a combo of metal patches for the big holes, and por-15 or Eastwood's rust converter (anyone used it?) inside (Eastwood comes in an aerosol-great for inside the quarters), plus putty for any gaps. Materials are the only concern for $$$... I do all this myself (for better or worse). Time, well that's another issue. Has anyone ever removed one of these monster windows? I removed the back glass from my 64 Caddy, and that wasn't too hard, but it didn't have the crazy bend these do. More pics to come.
    Adam
     
  9. Stormin' Norman

    Stormin' Norman Well-Known Member

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    Yep, every freakin' one of them!

    rollerjobt26.jpg

    Use a box-cutter (I like the OLAF brand, because the blades don't slip). Some of their blades come with a hooked blade. You have to cut the sealant away from the glass, from both sides. There's also a wire type cable with two handles. Don't fool around with cheap tools for this job. Those windows are expensive to replace. I'd go to a Body Shop supply house for the wire/cable cutter type. Once you get a gap to pass the handle through, you just 'see-saw' around the rest of the edge.

    Also, make sure you buy good sealer, and wait until it's like 70F outside to re-install them. The good sealant tells you to heat the tube up to liquify the material. In colder temps, that cools off too fast and your sealant acts like stiff jello. SIKO is a good brand, but check out others. Also some of these sealants are NOT for the Windshield. It has to be stickier (wind-pressures).
     
  10. aornest

    aornest New Member

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    I'm just about to take out the glass this morning... they're not as secure as I once thought. A couple of swipes and they are almost free. Check out the floor, too. This wagon was from Florida, and as the windows went, everything below them did too. The first is below the 3rd seat, and the second is, of cours, the tire well. All in all, not unmanageable. I included a couple of interior shots for hee-haws.
     

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  11. Stormin' Norman

    Stormin' Norman Well-Known Member

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    Now that you're in NY, those oval drain plugs are even more essential. I'll bet the owner took the car to the salt water beaches and drove through the water. The floor is definitely repairable though. (y)
     
  12. BlueVista

    BlueVista Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    Nice interior, just think of how much that would cost to replace.
    That's usually the way it goes below the rear windows when the water gets down in there, doesn't look too bad. Make sure the windows are set back at the same height. I don't know about that type wagon but it seems to be a common Vista Cruiser mistake and isn't noticed until you try to put the trim back on.
    You ever work with lead? I did a '55 Ford wagon with pop riveted patches and lead many moons ago and it held up really well, no cracking or shrinking.
     
  13. Stormin' Norman

    Stormin' Norman Well-Known Member

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    Boy that's a lost art - working with lead. The H.A.M.B. is about the only place where I've seen some great threads on it. I found this article on tin-bashing though:
    http://www.hotrod.com/howto/hrdp_0607_dents/index.html

    Also found an article about SheetMetal GLUING! It seems that from 1978, that many of the MFRS were using this technique to assemble bodies.

    Special section of Floors
    http://www.theautoist.com/fusor.htm
     
  14. BlueVista

    BlueVista Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    That glue is supposed to be some good stuff, had a Taurus and I think a bunch of panels were glued on that until they rusted away. My dad taught me how to do lead. He can do just about anything, says he taught me everything he knows and I still know nothing.:rofl:
     
  15. Stormin' Norman

    Stormin' Norman Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean. Mine gave up that line when we both went to University together in the same classes in Engineering and Accounting. But he did teach me a lot. He was my best friend too. PITA sometimes, but a heck of guy.
     

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