havent been here in awhile, the 84 electra wagons been running like a champ, will be putting a new power steering pump on it soon so i can stop keeping a quart beside the battery to top her off every other day. ive got a third car im working on now, a couple months ago i picked up a 78 tbird with only 40k on it, and to top it off its the diamond jubilee edition (my perfect car would be a wagon like the electra estate with elongated cadillac style tailights and the front end of this tbird lol) been going through and replacing deteriorated parts and such and have it running pretty well, ive got a strange problem that i cant quite figure out, when i got the car the engine ran well but pinged under acceleration and missed just slightly when hot. ive been doing a complete ingnition system rebuild. i have set the timing dead on and replaced the entire distributor and brain, coil etc. the wires and plugs were changed out by the previous owner withing the last three months. the engine fires up and runs just as good as my new car, but as it warms up it misses badly and tries to lurch forward sometimes during sitting at a light. seems the more over advanced it is the better it runs but it pings, being set where it is supposed to be makes it run worse. it does drag a little on acceleration and still misses some when wide open too, i think the accelerator pump is the cause of the "cough" to accelerate though. any ideas? i hear a slight sucking behind the dash on accelerate but it isnt in the headlight mechanism as they stay open / closed like they are supposed to for days after shutoff. could i hear a leaking booster inside the car? the brake is not hard, the pedal sucks down just fine when cranked. any ideas? some things i find a little strange, the car runs kinda warm seems like things are hotter in there than the wagon but it doesnt trip the light. also when hot and shut off for 5 or 10 minutes its hard as hell to start and after patting the gas to get it to fire off it puffs a little black smoke. but it starts fine cold even a week without driving it. things ive replaced or have been replaced withing 3 months: complete cooling system (everything) fuel pump, alternator, voltage regulator, complete ignition system aside from the spacer on the distro. gas hoses. all vacuume lines on motor for egr and vac advance. i pulled the smog completely off. checked all other vacuum hoses and they were out of the hot zone and ok. im kind of at a loss here. i hope its not head gasket or anything internal. i dont have a compression tester. i dont have any fluids mixing or anything burning out the pipe. the car does have the original cat conv on it but it hasnt been used but for 40k miles.
Sounds like you've already covered a lot of ground. When did the condition start? You said it didn't miss, just pinged, and then you worked on it? When stuff is heat related I look for a failing coil, or other electrical issue. You said you replaced the coil, with a new one I presume? I had to pull the AC in mine to get at a vacuum leak. Do you have a vacuum pump? You can use it to test for a leak.
V8 fords of that era always seemed to run hotter, The 4 (351 and up) 70's Ford V8's Ive owen all ways ran hoter than a Chev or Mopar. Your timing... sounds tipical of a 70's Ford needing a timing chain (been there) , but your a 351/400M, they are also known having cam ishues, lets hope it's not the case for you. Hot starting problems...is the heat shield still in place around the starter? Been there done that, replaced the started on the 351W family camper van and left the heat shield off and had the same problems. Dad kicked my but, I put it back on and problem solved. Good luck, hope you get it solved.
timing chain and cam should be fine, actually everything that is metal looks 100%, it has weatherd very well, no corrosion at all, car has only 40k on it of old man driving. the ignition system - new coil, dist, brain, and now platinum plugs and brand new wires, so its 100% replaced now. fuel system - new pump, hoses, filter and rebuilt the carb yesterday. electrical system - new battery, alternator, vr, cables, and i rebuilt the vr plug cooling system - new radiator, wp, hoses, thermo, sending unit no vacuum leaks anywhere with the exception of the boster of which i am unsure of. i rehosed everything that wasnt 100% ok and pulled the smog off. the car has always missed a little and been difficult to time since ive gotten it, every thing i do make small changes in the way it acts but doesnt resolve the problem. i have the timing set with a light to 10 btdc, it calls for 12 but with a variation of 2, 10 seems to be almost no ping only occasionally when wot and the motor is fully hot. and only occasionally "coughs" upon acceleration. it isnt missing much now either. but still isnt running perfectly. i am just having a hard time getting it set right, unlike the wagon where i could play with the fuel air mix, idle speed and timing and get it set perfectly just be ear and drivability. i started on the air fuel mix screws at 2 turns out and found that the motor could barely hang on, went three turns and smelled a little gas in the exhaust so i am set at 2 3/4 out from closed, however everything i have been told was that you start 1 1/2 out and only need to adjust a quater turn either way and this is alot more open than that. i set idle at 700 rpm. sometimes it runs well, but as it warms up it bogs down and sometimes pings under full acceleration. the jack$$$ at the autoparts store sold me the sending unit for a light instead of the gauge and it aint easy to get to so i dont really know how hot it is, all i know is it aint throwing the dummy light. just seems to have a mind of its own. sometimes it idles higher, sometimes lower. sometimes it hesitates on accelerate, other times it doesnt. sometimes i feel the miss, sometimes i dont. the only thing i know is the warmer it gets the more likely its going to act funny. when its hot and set for ten minutes or so, it is always hard to start. not a slow turning starter, it spins over fine, but like is not getting gas and after several pumps of the pedal it starts to hit off but poofs some blacksmoke momentarily. maybe thats just the way this old setup ran new, hell it is practically new now. hmm.. the history of the car is it was owned by an old man and hardly driven, then donated to the kidney foundation. it has no wear on it other than what age and heat would have caused.
also should this car be running premium gas? ive been running 87 regular but dont really know what it was designed for. it does require unleaded gas
Might just be sludged up from lack of being really run good and hard. I'd recommend some AutoRx in the oil to clean up the ring packs, and some Lucas upper cylinder lubricant to help clean up the crap on the valves. If you can get gas that has no methanol that is what I'd use. www.auto-rx.com
Here's my 2 cents. It sounds lean. It also sounds like a bad accelerator pump and it sounds like a vacuum leak. 1. Pinging. Cylinder temps hot and or a lot of carbon in the cylinders. You could try some GM top end cleaner and/or Seafoam. 2. Hesitation on acceleration - bad accelerator pump. 3. It should not run real hot for simply a 2* retard on the timing. I think you need to check the vacuum at idle. It really should be minimum 18" hg. You could be leaking vacuum anywhere around the intake manifold, brake booster or any other vacuum device including the advance vacuum diaphram on the distributor. Personally I think you made a mistake removing the emissions controls. The EGR system actually will lower the cylinder temperature. The EGR will remain closed at idle and at WOT and only opens mid-range speeds. I also think you are in need of a carberator overhaul. The mixture adjustment will not cause a rich start (black smoke out of the tailpipe). Put a vacuum gage on a manifold source and adjust the mixture to the highest reading and then screw the mixture screws in 1/2 turn. The floats could be too high or the inlet valve worn causing fuel to dribble in to the intake after shutting it off. My suggestion is to overhaul the carb, readjust everything and see if that helps.
accelerator pump was bad, check valve busted , i rebuilt the carb yesterday, the cough on acceleration has gotten better. the only time i noticed it since then was after immediatly going around a corner, could just be the float rocking since it pivots on the side. carb is a 2150 motorcraft and had absolutly no build up in it, i mean when i say this car is clean, its CLEAN, ive seen cars only a few years old fouler than this one. i removed all of the air pump, smog stuff, i kept the egr and preserved its original config, with the limiter and heat switch so very little egr till heat switch opens then you get full egr, this was connected to the vacc port under the choke, it was also t'd to the smog pump stuff which i removed and plugged up. i can see that the egr valve is working, as i trottle it open i can see the diaphram dip open. i really have tried everything i can think off, there is no sludge in the motor either, its really immaculatly clean. i will get a vacuum gauge and see what my readings are, could be a vacuum leak in the booster or behind the dash, or possibly on the intake, i did replace both gaskets around the carb egr spacer when i rebuilt the carb. i know whatever it is thats the problem is related to rubber or seals somewhere, i would just about bet my life on it from inspecting everything so far. engine seals are not leaking to a drip, but are not healthy either. just dont have a place to pull the engine yet. ive also rehosed the vacuum advance and also replaced it with a whole new distributor.
this car is still driving me crazy! no vacuume leaks. had crappy hydrolics in the brakes, replaced and bled them, brakes work MUCH better i think one was dragging a little but the car is still acting up. i do notice a little smoke/steam coming out of the carb when its hot and running, just a little about like a cigarette 1/4 the normal size would put out sitting in an ashtray lit. these systems are 100% new: brakes, ignition, charging, fuel. the thing runs great whe cold, but as it gets hot it starts "surging" or missing, when sitting at a light it will buck a little and seems to stumble sometimes, then when accelerating from stop it hesitates a little and then surges some. flooring it and opening it up will stop it for a minute. then after sitting hot for 5 minutes it acts like its out of gas when trying to start it i think its two seperate problems: 1. the gas is vapor locking when i shut it off hot (dont think i can do anything about it) thats why its hard to start (yes the carbs rebuilt) 2. the rest of the problems have to be caused by either a failing head gasket that only acts up when fully hot causing a compression loss. a crapped out torque converter (my fluid is bright pink smells good and full, however ive never changed in since i got it a few months ago) that only acts up when the fluids warm, or a stopped up catalitc converter. the car has 40k on it, someone please point me somewhere. i could change the head gasket but i dont know its the problem and once the heads off theres no turning back. i could try flushing the tranny with new fluid, or cutting the cat off. i cant think of anything else that might be the problem. i have no mixing fluids or noticeable fluid loss. im hoping someone can give me pointers like "its not the cat because if it was it would act up cold also" etc forgot to add, timing set 10 btdc, running r+m/2 octane rating 93 now, car calls for RON 91 or anti knock 87, cant figure out what that means but i figure premium wont hurt it and there is no ping anymore. i think i have the air fuel ration set correctly now, had a buddy help and started opening them up in half turns till the engine idled smoothly and cranked right back up, with no fuel smell in the exhaust
When a car runs good cold and crappy when hot I often suspect the coil. Or a choke that isn't opening.
ok here was the fix, richen the mixture just a touch and the car runs slightly cooler, metal gas hose was rubbing up against head and getting too hot, i reajusted it and covered with rubber insulator. had catalitic converters chopped of an a new dual exhaust system installed at muffler shop runs perfect now, idles well, only slightly hard to start after sitting up hot for a few minutes. the temperature seems much more normal now. the oil pressure is just a touch higher now which i assume is due to a cooler engine.
Dang! As I was reading your post I kept thinking It sounds like a bad cat or plugged exhaust. I'm glad you got her going.
