1962-1964 Ford/Mercury Wagon Guys

Discussion in 'General Automotive Tech' started by ChiefDanGeorge, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. ChiefDanGeorge

    ChiefDanGeorge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    50
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Had to replace alternator on my 63 Colony Park. If you need one, NAPA sells a direct replacement: RAY 2133300. Did a voltage check and it's too high under RPMs, in the 16V range. Adjust mechanical voltage regulator does nothing, so bought a new electronic one. Same issue. Found a wire that was drawing way too much current(gets hot). It's the feed from alternator to battery. I'm hoping cutting out and splicing in a new section will help. That particular wire is the feed from alternator to battery. The routing seems very strange to me. From alternator to voltage regulator(left side engine to right), back to the firewall, across firewall back to the left, then up to battery.

    Could one(or more) of you guys look and see how many wires are coming off your alternator. The schematics I found all show 4, but I've got 6 in the plug. I thought about getting a replacement plug to be able to use the alternators that don't use that odd plug on the alternator and just uses hoop plugs, however the one I see on rock auto doesn't support all the wires I currently have.
     
  2. 63Fowagon

    63Fowagon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    45
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto, Ohio
    On most Fords I have seen the alternator the wiring goes across the radiator support to regulator then to solenoid to charge battery. The long route that you describe the wire would always get hot and probably causing the alternator to overwork. The same as using a long light gauge extension chord with power tools.
     
  3. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Yeah, the routing seems weird to me. And you need to check field voltage, as the only way it will run that high with no ability to change the output is if the field is shorted (one test is called 'full-fielding' and is only done for a few seconds to verify full alternator output). So check your field voltage, and if it's low, the wiring may be shorted.
     
  4. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Oh, and when working correctly, you should have 13.5-14.5V at the output lug, and about 1/2-1 volt less at battery positive.
     
  5. ChiefDanGeorge

    ChiefDanGeorge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    50
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Thanks guys! I don't get the routing at all. I was wondering if that lead also was also supplying something else. At the firewall there is something that looks like some sort of plug, I need to snap a pic. However it just continues on around the firewall and back up to solenoid. Sounds like I could splice in and route back to the solenoid and avoid that long trip, has to be a nice voltage drop with corresponding current draw the way it is now. I did cut the wire at the spot where it was hot to see if it affected anything else. SEemed to be just the battery charge from alternator.
     
  6. OldFox

    OldFox Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,318
    Likes Received:
    338
    Trophy Points:
    195
    Location:
    West Tn
    Have you done a load test on your battery? A badly sulphated battery will cause overcharging resulting in your hot wire.
     
  7. ChiefDanGeorge

    ChiefDanGeorge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    50
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Nope, no load test. Might pull it out and take it to local parts place and get them to do it. The wire has been like this for a long time just based on the condition of the conductors when I unwrapped it. I just noticed it as I was messing around with the regulator trying to adjust the charging voltage.

     
  8. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    If you have a DVOM, when your wiring's back together, fire up and put it across the battery posts. The voltage should be around 14v, +/- 1/2v, as I specified above. If it is, then the extra wiring was somehow causing the full-fielding of the alternator. And, once all's said and done, you should leave the electronic regulator in place. Works soooo much better with ZERO adjustments to do.
     
  9. ChiefDanGeorge

    ChiefDanGeorge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    50
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    South Carolina
    GOt out there and cut the bad wiring out and put in a temporary alligator clip wire jumper. At first the voltage was perfect around 12.5V idling then topping out around 13.5V under RPMs. Checked it a bit later as I let car run and the dang thing was back up to 15-16V under RPMS. The jumper wire was a little warm, but nothing out of the ordinary. I stripped the electrical tape back on the voltage regulator end and then up were the bundle(expect the battery wire) enter the firewall plug.
    Another odd thing is the wire gauge seems to be different from the voltage regulator(bad wire) end to the firewall. Not 100% sure on that but the wire up at the firewall looks to be a different diameter.
    Had to stop for the day, but next test will be getting some appropriate gauge wire and then bypassing that long run.
     
  10. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure the field is grounding out somehow, but where? That'll take some extra diagnosis. At least make sure the alternator end of the harness is 'g rubbing a ywhere on the case, head or brackets. Shove cardboard hunks between the harness and any possible ground-out places when you're testing the rewiring.
     
  11. 63Fowagon

    63Fowagon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    45
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto, Ohio
    The wire from voltage regulator to plug on firewall is smaller . altConversion.jpg
     
  12. Silvertwinkiehobo

    Silvertwinkiehobo "Everything that breaks starts with 'F.'"

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    14,928
    Likes Received:
    2,950
    Trophy Points:
    710
    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    It's been a while since I worked on my customer's '63 Meteor, but it looks correct. It's the white wire I'm concerned about. The field windings, wire and regulator field circuit all can ground, causing the alternator to full-field. Let us know what you find.
     
  13. ChiefDanGeorge

    ChiefDanGeorge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    50
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    South Carolina
    The wire I am working with is the Large black/yellow one. There is not a red line running to solenoid from the junction block like you show, it's a yellow line. I think what has happened at some point is what you show as a junction block came apart, most likely due to the heat. All the wires are still there, but there are now two plastic/rubber pieces that look like they were one piece at assembly time. It's hard to know for sure if it was rewired at one time, all the damn electrical tape looks ancient.
    I'll definitely get some cardboard to place under wire bundle running from alternator, then add a jumper directly to solenoid to bypass that route. My concern is that the black yellow wire goes to that junction block as shown and splits off and by me bypassing that I end up not powering something. I will say when I cut the wire, everything other than the battery actually charging seemed to still work, although I need to test horn, forgot to do that.
    THanks guys, your suggestions give me ideas of things to check!
     
  14. 63Fowagon

    63Fowagon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2014
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    45
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto, Ohio
    The red wire is just a reference for positive battery it will be yellow/black to solenoid . Sorry for confusion
     
  15. ChiefDanGeorge

    ChiefDanGeorge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2014
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    50
    Wagon Garage:
    1
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Ah, good deal. You diagram is more straight forward than the wiring diagram I found for 63 Mercury Monterey.
    Page 1
    Page 2
     

Share This Page