Roller Paint Job Diary

Well, I got my paint today! The original thread on the Moparts.org forums started in December 2005. It is a human trilogy, an adventure of experiences and successes and failures, and excellent thrashing of the Pros and Cons. I posted all the relevant links in here, which was surprisingly elevated to a Sticky.

http://www.stationwagonforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708

The one thing that wasn't resolved and stuck with me since I read it last December, when it was -30C here in the 'Peg, was the right mix of paint (Tremclad or Rustoleum) and thinners (Mineral Spirits).

After all the bodyshop painters ranted and raved and the noise settled down, people focussed on techniques, paint types and brands, and sanding grades and procedures, so I won't even attempt to pretend I'm a wizard on Spray Painting. I'm an Industrial Engineer (not Mechanical or Electronic or Structural) and have an Accounting degree, and a Purchasing accreditation. I do know a lot of my own past 77 cars, some old stuff from my Drag Racing days, and Cabinetmaking. Painting cars is an art, and this is my first Roller job, with my own Trailer and Car as my easels. All you Spray guys, give me a break, eh?

Back to the mix: Temperature and Humidity are the main issues to adjust the mix to dry properly (lay down flat) and without Orange Peeling.

In the Moparts thread, a lot of guys asked about how the paint laydown should look, and IIRC, Martin, the original poster with the 69 Charger, said, that after you roll it on, the little bubbles should flatten out within 5 to 10 seconds. That's going to depend on temperature and humidity and the proportions of Thinner to Paint. Also, If I Remember Correctly, the starting mix was like 70 paint - 30 thinner, but no comment was made about either the temperature or humidity.

One of those Barometer thingies is ok, but they can't forecast.

Now its hard to find out what the humidity and temperatures will be, but two sites do have it. The most detailed one is:

It's international, and you can type in you're postal code/zip code and put it your favourites. It relies on remote weather stations to build its data, and refreshes itself every hour. Its located in the US and better known as the Weather Channel.
http://www.weather.com/

For my City, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, the Hourly display looks like this:

http://www.weather.com/outlook/trav...hour/CAXX0547?from=36hr_fcstHourLink_business

The second column from the right is the Humidity.

This page let's me see the forecast for 24 hours and has a 10-day forecast link as well as the Hourly one:
http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/local/CAXX0547

Since Winnipeg is one of the coldest major cities in Canada (we hit -45C this winter), and can be a bear if we get blowing snow, everyone is sensitive to it. Since we have an International Airport, we also have a live Weather Station. So our local forecasts are a bit more precise.

So, I go to either the official Canadian Weather report everyday and check their forecast (lately they've been very wrong on rainfall):
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/mb-38_metric_e.html

But they do have good detail as well and their cloud/radar maps don't eat up your hard drive, and graphic resources like the Weather Channel's does. This is a graphic scale forecast for the next 24 hours for Winnipeg (our taxes at work):

http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/forecast/trends_graph_e.html?ywg&unit=m

And then lastly, the Canadian Weather Channel also offers details:


Here's theirs for today, in Winnipeg:
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/CAMB0244

And their hourly forecast doesn't show humidity, but it does give a quick view of sunshine/cloud cover in Table or Graph layout (tabs on graph/table at top):
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/in...yfx&placecode=camb0244&hourlytype=hourlygraph

Again, you can check for other cities on these last two sites anywhere on the planet, but remember that foreign weather services rely on remote data, sometimes from computer modelling software and not from a real weather station.

As I go along, I'll post my findings, warts and all, and try to tabulate the mixture proportions.

To start with, I have to clean off the metal panels under the old wood grain vinyl.

I already cut new templates using wax paper for each of the 4 side panels (that's eight pieces) and the tailgate template as well. I'll be left with a piece about 5 feet long X 24 inches high. The Fairmont's woodgrain is never more than 12 inches between the molding clip stand-offs/holes.

My strategy is to remove each door, clean up the gunk and any rusty stains on the body frame, beneath the hinges on the frame and the door, underneath the weather-stripping (I cleaned it all off with soap and water, and then mineral spirits) - soft as a baby's bum.

Then I'll use the same Tremclad paint in spray can format and spray the frames and the doors and reinstall them. Next, I'll take off the roof rack bars and clean up the roof, wash it down and prime it, first (sh*t rolls downhill), then I'll paint the roof down to the belt line (bottom of windows). Then the hood, then the doors and tailgate and fenders.

In fact though, once I get the frames and door edges painted (rattlecan), I have to reinstall the headliner, interior trim (all refinished), electric wiring (merged (no taped joints) with 1978 harness for rear defrost in tailgate and cruise control, plus MSD wiring under the hood), and the new carpet, door panels and seats. Of course all the dash had to be repaired as well as the styrene frame and refinished. It has to go back in, re-install the steering column, pedals, etc., then the rad, crank her up and move it over so I can access the passenger side (it's one foot from the trailer.)

One of the advantages of a roller paint job is that you can do one piece (door, roof, etc.) at a time. Paint primer first thing in the morning (after the dew is off), buff it in the evening and apply another coat (low sunlight impact), then repeat for each of seven coats. I know I can go with less, but the Moparts guys who did seven coats go the best shines.

Then the next piece and so on. That way I only have to mask the windows twice Priming (door frames and roof), then Painting. Well, maybe masking a few times (each coat, if I drive it between coats). Most guys on the Moparts thread said it took 4 to seven days to get their car done completely. One coat in the morning, buff, add second coat, buff in the morning and next coat, etc.

I've got a couple of days of prep work to do and then onward and upward!:banghead3:

That's all for now, but I'll update.:icon_drive:

 

Let's see if this Attachment feature works! I made up an MS Excel Spreadsheet (Excel 2000 Pro) which works from Excel 97 to the latest Excel version. I put it into a zip file, no macros, no code buttons, just a plain-jane spreadsheet. It's called RollerPaintingMix.xls (rollerpaintingmix.zip).

The colored columns need manual input, the white columns (temp conversion to Centigrade format are in a formula that refreshes automatically. The cells are formatted for number types, decimal places.

You'll see a couple of cells with tiny red triangles in the upper-right corners, they are comments to help with the paint job. There's no trick buttons to click. KISS (Keep It Simply Simple). I'd rather paint the car, than program a stageshow.

Nope, I guess I have to ask a moderator. I tried by changing the extension to BMP, but it failed. The FAQ says a ZIP can be allowed, so here's my request. That way they can verify that its clean.

 

RollerPaintingMix.XLS coming up! Thanks Stefan.

The only places you don't type is in the far right 3 columns. All they do is convert the Fahrenheigt Temps to Centigrade. If you want, you can delete them.

To change the dates, click in the first cell with a date and look at the numbers in the Formula box up top, then type in your own dates.

There are only formulas in those Centigrade columns.

The idea is to record your experience day-by-day, and what you adjust the Paint to Thinner (Mineral Spirits, not Paint Thinner) ratio by so that the roller-generated bubbles lay flat (smooth) within 5 to 10 seconds, so that you can deal with hot weather (below 85F but above 50F) and changes in humidity (up to 80%, but preferrably around 25 to 65%.

Obviously, you can't paint in direct sunlight or really hot temperature, and the Tremclad/Rustoleum needs at least 7 and preferrably 12 hours to dry properly before buffing/sanding down any little bumps and just to prep for the next coat (up to 7 coats, but at least 4 coats, not including Primer coat (also Tremclad/Rustoleum primer). You really want to get all the dents and bumps fixed properly, because if you do it right, you'll put the bodyshop finishes to shame. Seven coats well done makes a Porsche look like a sandblasted rattlecan job.

Here's the file: View attachment RollerPaintingMix.xls

 

Somebody just sent me what looks like a unique Autobody Forum! Well, I guess I'll get more questions answered too!
http://autobody101.com/forums/

And check out the articles! There's even a free PDF on basic body work and painting.
http://www.autobody101.com/articles/

 

There's one or two major benefits to roller painting.

Major bucks left in your pocket:

One highend bodyshop in the US has offered its Benz, Porsche, Rolls & Bentley clients to do a Roller Primer job, for a mere $4,000, and only another $10,000 for the final paint, clearcoat and more for the Porcelainized finish.

Now, for the rest of us, a really good paint job (not the Maacos, etc.) costs about $3,000 to $8,000 in Canada. The custom car shops go up from there.

Think about that when governments talk about Carbon Taxes or new fees for more frequent emissions tests on older cars, like they're doing in British Columbia, now, and proposing here in Manitoba. In fact, the Roller paint job puts about 35 to 50% less emissions (compared to sprayed jobs), but with far cleaner (enviro-friendly) chemicals. You'll have already saved enough to pay those fees for a long, long time.

 

C.R.S. = Can't Remember Sh!t!

There was a Spreadsheet on the Moparts.org Roller Paint site. And I did download it. It doesn't tabulate the adjustments for Temp and Humidity, but it does make the calculation based on your estimate (in Ounces) of how much paint to Mineral Spirits with the result in Onces, rather than eyedropper 'guesstimation'.

Here's the Original File: View attachment 2354309-paintmixing.xls

I can combine this into one spreadsheet pretty easily, so that like me you don't have that CRS disease (common for people over forty, and most blonde bombshells ). A hard drive shouldn't be like looking in a woman's purse.

I'm going to do it on the same spreadsheet page on mine, because it's only 4 rows more. Most paintjobs wouldn't drag on for more than a month, would they. I guess I'll find out with my own. (More rain predicted for this week.):suspect:

 

I mentioned before that I copied the Moparts.org pages to about page 59 on the second section and most of the first 43 pages in the first section. It takes about 4 days to read the thread that far. I converted the sections into Word 2000 format with pictures and some of the back and forth.

The files are huge. Even zipped, they are 66 Megabytes!

You should go through the first 43 pages. At page 29 in the second section, Buffing and Polishing become the key focus, along with wetsanding, grits, secrets.

The key players were 69Chargereehaa, Exit1965, Aussie Driver, JeffS. You could search their names in the thread and cut to the chase. Ricklandia did a nice job on a Beer Fridge and a Riding Lawnmower. And one guy who's story just bust's you up. The guy lives in an apartment block with only outdoor parking. He'd go to his local Home Depot parkade tower early in the morning, put on a coat, shop around while it dried, sanded it and rolled on another coat and go home until he got it done. That story is worth reading. He adds more spice than I could ever dream of!

Also, the Canadian Tremclad rep called me in response to 'where's my paint?', a couple of weeks ago, and told me that 69Chargereehaa was having a CD made to offer folks (His real first name is Martin). So you might want to check out the site and contact him via a PM.

 

Here's a couple of pictures from Aussie Driver's results from page 47 of the second section:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=2655425&page=0&fpart=47&vc=1

Before buffing (Plain old Turtlewax):



After buffing:

 

New and renamed spreadsheet with Adjusting Mixture Calculation from original Moparts.org thread.

File: View attachment RollerPaintMix.xls

I left the editable cells in their original White color. You type in your estimates of Paint and Mineral Spirits using your own results decisions and the total is shown on the same row in the grey cells to the right.

Let's say you figured you'd use half a pint of paint and mineral spirits to paint the hood with one coat (one big hood). That's about 1 regular cup (8 oz).

You decide you want to go 50% of each, so you type:

4 under the paint column, and 50 under the Mineral Spirits column to get 8 oz.

You can get a cheap postage weighscale at the Dollar Stores or Walmart, or go to a secondhand store and pick up an old kitchen scale.

I'd also grab a glass measuring cup (the SWMBO will remain calm) while you're there.

If you figure that one gallon is enough to put 7 thin coats on a whole car, the quantities per coat would be:

160 fl. oz. divided by 7, or 23 oz. per coat (in paint), and less or about the same in Mineral Spirits, depending on your mixture.

A door wouldn't need very much, eh?

 

Holy cow! I don't want to upstage this diary thread, but this Canadian thread that starts talking about Polishing compounds and Swirl removers, migrates to Water Fines for washing your car at home!

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293571&page=2

As far as I know, Edmonton fines people for watering their lawns after 1:00 PM, and filling their pools and hot tubs without a permit, but I would never have believed that Toronto would do that, with one of the largest Great Lakes at the front door!

The folks are what you might call 'miffed'!

I'm freaked out!:rant:

Here in Winnipeg, we have decent rainfall, but our City Water comes from a lake some 100 plus miles away, so I'm planning on building a rain harvesting system. I found a calculator to estimate the average rainfall/snowfall on my tiny roof for annual rainfall. It works out to about 6 times what I can ever use, even with a family with 5 kids (we don't have any)!

My water bill averages about $40 per month. $9.31 for city water, 13.50 for admin fees, and the rest is the Sewage Treatment rate, based on the water usage! What other service charges you more for waste disposal than the product you bought? Maybe nuclear waste handling.

Even if you just set up a system for collecting rain water in barrels for washing the car or gardening, you'd save a bundle! At least until climate change starts drying up our rivers up here (we are a drought prone region for our grain farmers).

 

Another Finishing benchmark. They call him the Detailing Master.

http://www.miracledetail.co.uk/auto-detailing-home.html

Who drives a $2 million car? You'd think you'd be genuflecting or something?

Alright, back to work! We've got UV ratings of 7 right now, and after living in Mexico, I find my skin is really sensitive even with SPF 60 sunblocks. So I take frequent breaks, until I get the canopy up.

 

this tremclad thing has been all over the net ,,,i find it quite interesting,,,,,not my cup of tea but interesting none the less,,,,however the lastest issue of hot rod ran a pretty good article on this stuff and painted a falcon two door (sorry rev not a wagon ) it looked nice and they got the itch after seeing the buzz on that original thread on the net from that mopar guy ,,,,

 

You've got to look at this! This is the third wagon he's painted this way in a year! Very sweet!

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33577&start=100