Thinking about picking up another wagon and would rather stay away from the computerized stuff so trying to recall when it started. I am thinking around 82 the manufactures started with the computer modules but not sure. I would be leaning to Mopars but a ford or chevy would be considered.
GM had computer controls in '81, on carburetors and ign. timing is all I think. I have an '80 Lincoln that has some rudimentary computer controls as it features a throttle position sensor on it's fiendishly complicated variable venturi carb. I'm not sure what Chrysler was doing to meet emission standards those years when things were transitioning towards fuel injection. The earlier "lean burn" systems were a bit finicky. What I can say with certainty is that all of those last carburetors are difficult(for me anyway)to overhaul and adjust. Given a choice I'd go earlier or with a later FI engine. Just sayin
I think ~2000 is when manufacturers went to very complicated computer controls; controlling the transmission, introducing proprietary OBD codes that only the dealer can pull at $100 a pop, etc I don't think it's so bad, from the point of view of doing your own repairs, to get a car from the mid 90s
No, no, no... 1997 started OBDII which is a mandatory "across the board" system... With the right reader (cheapies go for $50 new) and the book that comes with them you too can pull codes. Computers began in the 80s. Different points in time on different makes though. Be careful, but don't be too scared of early computers, just do your homework.
What's the limitation on OBDI, versus the presumably more advanced OBDII? No, I'd had a volvo that had additional proprietary codes. Two independent shops I'd inquired at told me they could pull the standard codes but wouldn't be able to read volvo's special codes. Bit of a racket. I did take it to the volvo dealer: dealer wanted $100, shops wanted $100. I'll say that they did not let me keep the 10 pages of detailed description and code, either: only the 1-page printout of conclusions (what repairs it needed). The reason was exactly that that information was exclusive to volvo, when I asked. I hope it's not the case with Ford or GM, but it's my understanding that the german manufacturers also have codes reserved just for their dealers, as well. On that subject, just what IS the justification for the $4000 computers shops claim they have to buy to read all the codes off of an OBDII computer (any shop that I've posed this question to, tells me that the $50 handhelds won't pull all codes)? Why would any such computer cost so much? I have an $800 desktop that can render impressively realistic graphics, and $4000 just spits out a list of error messages that were already stored in the car, something a $5 USB stick should be able to save (and then you read it on your cell phone). If it's a racket, I'd like to feel even more bitter; if there's a genuine justification I'd like to understand it, and then I wouldn't have to be bitter :-D
Well, Bernie...it's simple. The car manufacturer doesn't WANT you to be able to work on your car. Need I say more?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics There's some info here for your perusal. I think basically there are more sensors providing data, therefore it's more complicated to tune because of the greater number of variables available.
The first american auto with a computer was the 1958 Chryslers with the Bendix electronic fuel injection. The 1976 Caddy Seville had an analog electronic port fuel injection system. In 1980 Caddy released the digital throttle body system that was later used on many GM engines. By 1981, nearly every car built by GM had computer control for emissions and fuel metering purposes, on both carb and injected cars.
A lot of good information here but as I like my cars simple I really am anti computer so mostly have 50's -60's vehicles I do have a 76 D100 (1/2 ton pick up) no computer headachs so I guess I will look late 60 through the 70's. Marcar1993 I see the 72 plymouth in your signiture I had I think a 71 plymouth wagon like it, forget which model back around 1974.
I think Ross is right.. Gm started medding with simple electronics on the carbs and ignition around 80-81, Chrysler had the spark control ignition junk about the same time. The late 70's and early 80's emmission stuff is junk because they were trying to figure out how to do what the federal government had forced on them....but they are easy to remove and replace with older carbs and electronic ignitions. My '93 Caprice is fuel injected and computerized (OBDI) but it was very easy to work on with the factory setup. Throttle Body Injection has no adjustments. The sensor layout is very simple. You see 200k plus cars running well all the time
Ditto with most Fords too. 1979 Fairmonts were built without air pumps or emissions stuff, in Mexico, and started to see it creeping in by 1981. The only 1980's Fords that I'd have an engine management system on are the Turbo I4 Ford 2.3L engines. Too complex to run the Intercooler, Turbo and fuel delivery without it. I'd probably adapt the I4 system for the I6, once I solve the space problem of mounting one from an I4 engine. The wiring for these Turbo engines started in the 1979 Mustangs and Capris and even Fairmonts. So I'd spend a few weeks merging the harnesses, and maybe sending off a chip for reprogramming for the I6.
