Last Friday evening, a friend's 1999 subaru outback "legacy edition" overheated. He had it towed to our local shop, where it sat until today (they didn't have saturday hours). All of us went on a camping trip this weekend, as planned but simply with a different assortment of cars; so I did not get a chance to see the car myself. As he described it, there are two coolant tanks, primary and secondary. My 1990 colony park just has 1 overflow tank. The secondary tank still has coolant, the primary was empty. He pulled over when he saw his temperature gauge in the red zone. The check engine light never came on, though had he not noticed the temperature gauge himself, it surely would have in the near future. He found the empty primary tank, and as he had a jug of spare coolant in back, tried adding it: it just poured right out the bottom. When he had the car towed, there was a nice puddle right in front, by the radiator. Sounds like something straightforward, like a ruptured lower radiator hose, right? A leak so large that you pour coolant in the top, and it pours back out the bottom? Well: our mechanic, whose labor rates are high but whose expertise and diagnostics have always been reliable, could not find a problem!! They ran the car for 45min and saw no leaks. They presumably inspected the main hoses, radiator, water pump: they found my leaking water pump, which was leaking very slowly, they wouldn't miss something so blatant! What is going on here? What could cause a fairly massive coolant leak and an overheating episode, but when it's cooled down for a weekend, vanish? Is there some hose that could only expand and leak when it gets hot, but seal up again when it cools down?
Bernard, how do you find all these mystery auto issues? :confused: I can only think that his car has a self-healing plastic rad (common in newer cars now) or maybe aluminum. I think the Prestone Gods didn't want him using his car on the trip.
http://users.sisna.com/ignatius/subaru/headgasket.html http://www.subaruproblems.com/ This is a well known issue with the 2.5 Subaru engine from 99 to around 2002.
sure hope it's not that; he just had his head gaskets done a few months ago! Hmm, unless those would still then be warrantied by the shop that did the work....
There wasn't black sludge in the coolant, nor was the oil milky... but I suppose it doesn't need to be that visually overt. I don't think he's had them do a chemical test (for hydrocarbons in coolant) yet, however.
Well geeze get down on the ground crawl around and have a look under there. Don't pay a mechanic to find a bad hose... If the rad has sprung a leak it will show up when there's coolant flowing, which will be AFTER the thermostat is open. This could take running the engine for a while.
If he has had the problem before...or even if he hasn't...there are other issues. Heads and blocks have cracked on these years of that engine. It's a nightmare. Trust me....the problem is inherent. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but that's just the way it is. Subaru screwed up when they bored out the 2.2 liter engine to the 2.5. AND.....don't know if they have done a turn around but....at the time....they denied any culpability and came up with a "fix" that was nothing more than a Bar's Leak type fix. There are tons of articles on this, Bernie. If your friend gets that car running cool....tell him to dump it. Although, he may not get much. Just look around and see how many 99 & up Subies are for sale. Not trying to be a dickhead here...just trying to help. I am familiar with the Subaru boxer engine.
Ah, so 1999 is when subaru earned their reputation for blown headgaskets? I was told that 2004 is when they fixed it. The social situation was such that it made sense for him to leave it with an official mechanic than have me look at it. Spoke with him tonight: the shop did indeed idle it for 45 minutes to warm it up, and then pressure tested it, no leaks! It just had the headgaskets done mere months ago, shouldn't be that again, already, so soon. Also confirmed that it was leaking directly from below the radiator, as he poured more fluid in, last friday: that too is not a headgasket (yet, anyway!). So, can a radiator leak fairly catastrophically, but appear to have healed up once it cools down to non-red-zone temperatures? Let's say, if his car was in the red, it would have been 280F, and normal operating temperature is probably ~200. Can aluminum and plastic DO that, to the point that a mechanic with a pump to run a pressure test, wouldn't discover a leaking radiator? Wondering if we should replace his radiator next weekend. On an independent note: both his speedometer and the odometer do not work. Would just the speed sensor, or whatever sensor the odometer uses, cause both issues? We might address that next weekend too, especially if that's a deal breaker for resale (and it well could be)
Perhaps the thermostat was stuck, which heated things up too much and they found a way out. Then maybe the thermostat unstuck itself and started doing it's job?
Bernie....did you read the first link that I posted above? It mentions owners throwing parts at this problem. It could be any number of things as Andy has pointed out, but, a leak down test should have exposed the leak.
