A couple 1964 Ford questions....

UPDATE...so I gave up on the original rear window regulator and found a complete (non-disassembled) one at the Portland Swap Meet a couple weeks ago. I finally got time to install it today and now I have ANOTHER problem. The motor/regulator works great when its bench tested...goes up and down no problem when I touch the wires to a 12V battery. I install it in the car and it will not raise. It will go down, but will not raise. I remove the rear glass so its just the motor/regulator like it was on the bench, only wired through the car's harness, and it only lowers...won't raise.

I'm going through the wiring diagram in my "1964 authorized Ford shop manual" and it doesn't show a tailgate window (of course) but it does list a "back-lite regulator motor" with I assume is the tailgate window motor. Both my dash switch and my tailgate key switch test good up and down. I believe the issue has to do with the red wire that goes from the tailgate key switch back up to the front of the car and then comes back to the motor via red/yellow wire (I assume). When I turn the key to the up position, I have voltage passing through the switch and heading to the front of the car but it doesn't make it back to the motor. Is there something under the dash that would only cause a problem with the "UP" function of the motor? I read a thread about the window relay on the center of the firewall.....if that goes bad would it only effect the "UP" function or does it stop all power window functionality?

Man, this wagon is driving me nuts.

 

Any power window switch is designed to make the power and ground connections when it's engaged in either direction; so when the window goes in one direction but not the other, the electrical switch requires replacement.

 

I'll look in my Motor book and see if there's something you can use.

 

And BTW, you and MartyK--where in WA are you guys located?

 

Are their limit switches in there that break connection once the travel goes to the upper or lower extent?

 

Silvertwinkiehobo....I believe both of my switches are good. They each make solid contact in both directions. I'm no electrician, but it appears that there is power to the switch on one wire and the switch simply sends that power through either the UP wire or the DOWN wire depending on how its moved. I've got the power to the switch and the motor works DOWN. When I turn the key to UP my test light comes on correctly on the UP pin leaving the switch and even on the plug behind the left taillight where that same wire heads forward, but something is stopping that power from making it back from the front of the car.....if that makes any sense.

I'm in Pullman if you want to come over and fix it.

 

I have relations in Pullman and Clarkston (Dad and I were just over there a couple months ago!), but no, my presence isn't necessary. I've run into this on my fullsize Bronco, and it was the switch on the key cylinder. The problem with the test light is you need to put the probe on the wire that goes to the ground; with the switch in DOWN, you'll see power, but in UP, there won't be power, which shows the switch to be bad.

 

As I stated previously I'm definitely not an electrician, but.....

when I clip my testlight ground to the car and touch the red/blue wire coming back from the front of the car the light comes on. That's before the tailgate switch. (It makes sense to have power always to that switch because you'd want to roll the window down to open the tailgate without having to turn the ignition on first.) I plug the tailgate switch plug in and test coming OUT of the switch and have power on both UP and DOWN pins, however the wire leaving the switch is red/yellow but the wire for the UP circuit on the motor is solid red. I therefore trace it to behind the left tail light, where I find a white two-wire plug with a red and a red/yellow wire. I have power when I turn the switch for UP on the red/yellow wire but it doesn't make it back on the red wire which I assume comes back from up front.

I know it could be a bad wire, but does anyone know if that power heading from the rear switch goes through anything (relay, junction, etc) that can go bad? I don't understand why the DOWN side of the circuit seems to go straight to the motor from the switch but the UP side seems to go from the switch all the way to the front of the car and back again. There must be something that it goes through before coming back.

 

I'll look at mine to see if I can locate some "special" limit or relay, but I doubt it. If you bench tested the unit and it works, then not in your car, my guess it's wiring. My tailgate key wasn't working but when I took the rear bumper off I found exposed/burnt wiring where the harness passes by the d/side tailgate hinge. I still have that p/steering cylinder if you want it. My sister can get it to Tri-Cities for you. I don't want any money for it. My wood trim is at the vinyl wrap shop, bumpers haven't come back yet, paint coming is less than two weeks. I have a chance of getting this mule on the road by the end of the summer! Greetings from the center of the known universe-Puyallup.

 

I also assume it has to do with a wire but want to check if there is anything that wire runs through (relay, block, etc) that could be easy to check. Any idea why in the world only the UP wire seems to go from the tailgate up to the front of the car and back again? It looks like the DOWN wire just goes straight to the motor from the tailgate key switch.....

 

I know this sounds stupid but I have to ask. Do you have 5 wires leading from your motor unit?

 

nope, there's only 3. black, red, yellow.

 

Black, solid red and yellow are to the motor. Yellow, and two striped red are to the tailgate key. Yellow, black, and three reds go the the tailgate switch. The wires should drop down out of the tailgate, go under the rubber rock guard and continue around the drivers side. There has to be somewhere where the 5 wires stop and only three continue. I smell the same trouble I had, right around the hinge behind the bumper support. If you haven't taken it off already, let me know. There's two ways to drop that rear bumper. If you can get it to go one direction, chances are your ground is good. If the wires coming out of the back of your motor don't match mine, it would appear someone has done something to the stock setup. If I could figure out how to post pictures, I could send them this way. After re-reading our posts, we may be talking apples and oranges. Yes, three leads coming from the motor but a total of five leading to the dash switch. There should be two wire connectors next to your motor. Each with three wires. Red, black yellow, and 2 red striped, yellow.

 

SUCCESS!!!! I found the cause of my UP problem. This evening I decided to sit down and figure out why the UP wire ran to the front of the car before returning to the motor. As I sat staring at the wires behind the driver's side taillight I discovered a rocker switch right below the latch pin for the tailgate on the driver's side. It is a simple on/off switch with a little arm, and what it does is not allow you to roll the window up unless the tailgate is closed. It makes sense, because if you rolled up the window with the tailgate flat it could damage the window or at the very least put it out where it could get broken easily.
At any rate, mine wasn't working. I would push it in to simulate the tailgate closed and it still didn't pass the power through. It held in by two little bolts and has a rubber 2 wire plug. It is a little "can" with 3 tabs holding down a cover. I bent the three tabs up and lifted the cover off to find that the 2 copper contacts were corroded. I simply used my wire wheel to clean them, then lubed it up with some dielectric grease and put it back together. Presto! It worked like a charm. Put it back in the car, plugged it in, and now my window goes up with either the key in the tailgate or the switch on the dash!!
THanks for all the advice and suggestions. I still don't know why that power wire runs all the way up front before coming back, but at least I have a window that goes down AND up now.

 

Good job! I know the switch you're talking about but I was focused more on the motor and limit switches and forgot to even mention that.