Starter issues

Hey guys. I've been having starter issues with the racecar and I'm tired of buying new ones.:confused: Thought I'd run this by you. I have bought several high torque starters and they just ain't making it. At first I thought it was the 800 cca battery I had but then I put another battery in line with it, (another 800 cca) and I still have troubles. The static compression is over 220 PSI and while I know that is a lot, I would think a $240.00 high torque starter would be enough. It still does the "Wonk, Wonk" too advanced timing kind of thing no matter what the timing is. If I move the timing to where the engine cranks, it runs like crap. If I put it back to where the engine runs well, it doesn't crank fast enough to start it? WTH?
Any ideas?

 

1000 cca battery or bigger. I ran demo derbies 30 years and when they get hot at the end they do this<( when it comes down to the all important money time) They stall after a hard hit and don't wanna crank over no matter what the starter or battery. My solution was a distributor adjuster. thru a hole in the firewall i used a STRONG but lightweight aluminum strap,cut a V in it and mechanic's wired it to the distributor. Comes down to the end lost radiator hot ass car no crank or super slo crank you pull the rod back till she cranks smooth and fires then slowly( or quickly depending on how long it took to fire) push rod forward till smooth running.have to leave dist just slightly loose but tight enough to not want to move itself lets say very snug,cause with the rod on it even aluminum when hit the inertia and weight would move it if not tight enough. I had mine set up so optimum timeing was when the vaccume advancer hit the intake when pushed all the way forward so i knew i was right where i wanted it!
Got to tell ya i peeved off more people cause of that thing as my car would always start and restart!

 

Clean tight connections? good starter relay? adequate cables? good ground?
What is your static timing?

 

Everything is clean and new. Initially set the static timing to 15 degrees and that + the advance in the distributor It should be around 32-34 degrees at about 3000 RPM. I think my crank has a 16 degree built in setting and my cam is set to zero at the moment. I think it could be a little advanced but if I crank it for a little over 3-4 seconds, it begins to turn over fairly easy. I have been doing this for forty years and this time it has me stumped?

 

Cold or hot? If when hot only maybe the starter and cables are getting too warm.
Do the cables heat up?
Time to test the load while cranking
Maybe less initial lead and dial some more advance in later?? 15* seems a lot to start and 34* all in isn't awfully agressive. Of course I know nothing of your combination.

 

The wires get warm of course but nothing too hot. I mean I can still hold on to them. I did a load test a while ago and while it was higher than normal amp draw, It was within a close enough range. Kinda weird. Sometimes it cranks right up and others it won't even turn over once without stalling. I have changed the starter twice so what are the chances it needs another? I did change the vacuum line to a direct port and retarded the timing a bit. That helped. I think I'll try using less initial timing and more advance in the distributor. All the while keeping it below 36 degrees of timing. I'm ready to try anything by now!
Dave

 

1. Are your cables 2 gauge copper wire?
2. Is your battery mounted under the hood, or elsewhere?
3. Where are your grounds and are they good?

 

Cables are new 2 ga wire. Battery is remounted in the spare tire compartment in the rear right. I suppose the grounds could be better. I grounded the neg from the engine to the frame and from the battery to the frame rails to avoid running two 20 foot lengths of wire to and from the battery. Maybe this is my trouble? (Pause for thought here.)
Going to try it.
Dave

 

My 1939 Ford with Chevy V-8 and the 1941 Ford with Chevy 350 has the battery in the trunk and one cable just like you have. Many ran them that way.

 

.....I'd suggest adding engine direct to the battery negative. Why not try this when it happens next time, if you have a long enough booster cable just connect it and see what happens.

 

ok did you ground it to the body anywhere?

 

Even with my battery in the standard place, I run one gauge battery cables. With the length of the run you have, I would think of running at least 1 gauge, and maybe even aught or double aught. My thinking is you can have a cable that is too small, but never one that is too big. Bigger equals lower line losses.

 

Agreed used school bus cables for my derby cars!

 

Well boys and girls, I figured out what the trouble was with my starter:banghead3:. I decided to have a real look at the engine and pulled the top end off. What I found surprised even an old timer like me.
A friend of mine was doing routine checks for me on the fluids and he called me over. There was oil in the radiator and the typical milk in the engine? I didn't understand? I had only started the engine for a few minutes at a time to break in the camshaft. No more than fifteen minutes at a time. How the hell did I blow a gasket?!
The gaskets were clean and the heads looked fine. What I noticed was the top of the pistons and the chambers in the heads. #7 was clean as the day I put it in. #8 was the same but to a lessor amount. All the head studs were loose and I could unscrew them by hand. Of course there was no sealer on the threads either!! I had a pair of blown head gaskets! Or at best a leaking water jacket into the pots. My cylinders were partially hydraulicing and that was the reason I was having trouble starting the damn thing! To make sure I didn't waste the engine, I pulled the pistons and checked the rods and nothing seems wrong with them. All within tolerance.
I'll bet I don't have 45 minutes on this engine! I had a guy named Deiter Presse here in Tillamook Oregon, who has a machine shop re-balance the engine and he put the engine together for me. I will never let someone else touch an engine I am building again! what a f-cking joke!! He didn't even "O" ring the block that he charged me for! I am going to kick the crap out of him when I see him!
What a dirtbag!
Sorry guys, I'm just venting a little. No offense to any of you.
Dave.

 

That surely explains it. Was there no steam when you were starting this thing???
Go get 'em!