I understand that many of the large American cars are converted to LPG. Also that LPG is very inexspensive compared to gasoline. What is the BTU difference between the fuels. Here in parts of the U.S. there is CNG (compressed natural gas) and Probane/Butane but no LPG to my knowledge. The E85 is 30% lower in BTU resulting in 30% lower fuel milage as compared to gasoline. Back in the late 1970's and early 80's quite a few cars were converted to run on Propane. We have lots of propane in my area but it's still over $3 per gallon and I think it's 20+% less efficient than gasoline but much cleaner running. Oil changes can actually be extended out to double the manufacturers recommendation. It's probably the same for natural gas.
PM me your email address so I can mail you LPG info.:2_thumbs_up_-_anima (about 4Mb) BTW; It is approx 10% less... and even those figures can be lowered with a good set up (and good LPG).
Yep that is about right. The thing is that I don't think the "gas" price will be that much lower for CNC/propane/butane/lpg in the US to justify a converting it. A simple kit (think of it as carb type lpg) is about 600 pounds here in the UK. So with a fuel consumtion of say 16MPG (US MPG and thats being kind to any of out pre 1991 full size wagons) and a price for LPG that is around 55p per liter instead of 110p per liter (i.e about half) it would take 9000km (5600 miles) to break even (thats calculated with a slightly higher fuel consumtion that LPG often gets when converting). Now it has a higher octane value that gas so you can run higher compression ratios than with gas hence produce more power from the same fuel, but to get a really good system you need a sequential injection type one .... It's kind of the same with E85 people use it to run massive turbo or very high compression engines.. Cheers Dyna
Actually I wasn't concered about the price so much but cleaner running and cleaner oil etc. I haven't found anyone in the US willing to deal with my car. It's the tanks that are the issue more so than the under hood conversion. I have room for two ten gallon tanks but a fueling adapter will be the major concern. I don't want the tanks inside for obvious reasons and mounting the tanks in place of the gas tank would present problems with refueling unless I can find an adapter to fit to the gas filler area. The kit I found in Arizona is under $1,000 with DOT approval less tanks. This seems reasonable to me.
Yep it will run cleaner than a gas engine if the gas engine is old bugger with old technology.. i.e. mid/late eighties and older.. --- but I seriously doubt that a modern gas engines are less clean than any old tech Lpg.convertion. that being emitting less CO, NoX or Hydrocarbons than a gas engine.. Its said that lpg will emit less CO2 than gas engine, haven't checked that one out yet..... You should know that European cars (as being the one sold at least in Europe) where notoriously dirty compared to US specified cars and especially CA specified, for example it's first 1995 UK get stringent emission laws.. and before 92 it's basically no emission laws at all What makes the above even funnier is that it's now Europe how is pissing about how environ friendly and all they are with a ton of green tax and they say that without even blinking that they didn't do **** to get the cars clean for over 25 years.. Anyways... don't get what is wrong with putting the tanks say where you would normally have the spare wheel? In a US station wagon there should be able space to put two tanks on the sides of the loading bay so to say.. Nearly every single LPG installation here has the tank in the trunk very few has it under the car (i.e. on the outside).. Cheers Dyna UK emission laws.. which are a joke.. Passenger cars: First used before 1/8/1975 - Visual test only. Failure for excess idle speed, dense blue or black smoke for 5 seconds at idle or during acceleration up to 2500rpm or half engine max speed whichever lowest. First used between 1/8/75 and 31/7/86 - meter test CO <=4.5%, HC<=1200ppm. First used between 1/8/86 and 31/7/92 - meter test CO<=3.5%, HC<=1200ppm. First used between 1/8/92 and 31/7/94 - advanced emission test (CAT) if its running on petrol when presented, to the vehicle specific limits usually around CO<=0.3%, HC<=200ppm and Lambda 0.97 - 1.03. Remember from 1st August 2001 a basic emission test will be carried out initially. Vehicles with 6 or more seats are not passenger cars and are subject to less stringent requirements usually: Registered between 1/8/92 and 31/7/94 - meter test CO<=3.5% HC<=1200ppm Registered on or after 1/8/94 and an exact match can be found in the DTP data book or analyser database then CAT test to specified limits otherwise CO<=3.5% HC<=1200ppm PS: Hehe our wagons aren't cars here in the UK.. beats me but then they also drive on the wrong side of the road....
one of the rules for LPG here is that refueling the tank is only allowed from outside the car. On both of the Rivieras I have those fitted just beside the gas fillers. In lots of cars fitted with LPG they made a hole in lower rear fender with an ugly black plastic cap to cover it :banghead3: @ Dyna, you are looking for a clamshell; don't know whether you have plans for LPG in it, but besides your demands as roof rack woody etc maybe a demand for a 2 seat in stead of 3 would be more suitable for a LPG tank.
We haven't advanced to tanks that fit in the tire well.We are still using fork lift tanks. I have the mounting space for two 10 gallon tanks. They are 12"X27". Re-fueling would be the issue. I would like to plumb to the gasoline filler access that's already there. This may end up being a dream on my part. I can get a fuel system. That's not the issue it's the tanks and re-fueling that will present a problem. This is not something I'll lose sleep over but thought that in a few years I'll be able to buy fuel anywhere vice the few places we have local. This car is beginning to sit in the garage more as I'm trying to preserve rather than restore. The Fox bodies Fords and Mercury's will never have the following that the mid-sixties cars have now.
Heartbreaker... If you're preserving in sunny, arid, southern California, already, you know why I went NUTSO with the undercoating and Rust Paint. I figure I've got a max of 10 years before she melts into oblivion.
I'm still looking for a Buick Clamshell (have one I'm thinking about but nothing set in stone yet).. Will not LPG it thats for sure.. I will not drive it much and I want to keep it original.. The new winter wagon (1990 Buick Electra Estate) is a better candidate for LPG since it notorious for it's gas guzzling appetite.. Ah found another 1990 Buick Electra Estate -- it's a nice wagon but both bumpers are bumped so I'm interesting to part it out.. It's in SC (South Carolina) -- anybody need any parts?? What is intereting for me is rust free front end bits.. such as the inner fender panels (sorry for high jacking the thread).. Never got that one.. some car mechanics should be shot.. is it really that hard to spend an extra 10min or so to make it nice and concealed... Cheers Dyna
You could always get tanks from Europe or from down under.. sure not DOT and all that -- but then we use NOS tanks from the US even if it's not allowed over here.. -- just don't show it to much .. Well you don't get a following of something that probably was the low point for US car industry (same thing with GM or Mopar too).. My 1990 Buick Wagon has a 307 with a whopping 140Hp ... how the heck can you mange to get so little power out of so much volume and get it to drink that much --- hmm was it so that they engineered it backwards??? They should be lucky I like the looks and that I will only do some driving around home.. Cheers Dyna
You can always do this to a car and it will last even if it's from the rust belt http://www.surfaceprocessing.co.uk Cheers Dyna
That's what I did, actually. The only spot I didn't do was between the gas tank and the floor of the spare tire well. Mexican cars with AC get more undercoating than non-AC cars, so mine had very little surface rust. We never drove it much here, because the bus system is great in our neighbourhood. 4 different routes within a two-block walk. It takes longer to warm up the car than catch a bus! Then I roller painted the car with 8 coats of rust paint and new woodgrain:
